HD Remix

[Pikachu]

I totally agree with you on Sagat in terms of what he lost and gained, but I think relative to the rest of the cast, although he's a lot more fair than what he used to be, he's still top tier material. The extended arm vulnerability is the potential killer, though, because it takes away just enough range to make him susceptible to more jumping attacks. At the same time, if it encourages enough jumping, which I think it will in the long run, makes Uppercutting something that happens a lot more often. The way I see it is that rather than using the fireballs as ridiculous chip damage, coupled with some pokes being the primary damage, the higher risk options (Sagat's other specials) come into play a lot more often to do bigger hunks, but at smaller intervals.

Honda's Headbutt has traditionally gone over low tiger. I think in some even earlier games like CE and HF, Psycho Crusher also does the same IIRC. On a similar note, I think what will eventually stop Honda from being A tier is the fact that the Jab Headbutt can be baited and punished. Once this happens, he has to stop and question himself at a given range, but there is that same argument for almost any other character. Btw, have you figured out how the hell hand slaps were actually easier to stop? Maybe we need to try this more in local matches, because they're hella f'd up online.

I noticed Guile C.fierce doesn't hit very cleanly on Hurricane Kicks. If it's not in the corner, I let them fly over me a little further and rounhouse FK them. Without lag, it's very possible to FK them when they're on their way down.

And I learned that fireballs for Sagat, shotos, and Chun have variable recovery times in ST, based on the most recently used normal. In other words, all that whiff shit Japanese people do isn't just to throw off the timing of throwing the fireballs, but the recovery as well. You can also kara the fireballs, which I know delays the startup of the fireball by a frame or two, but will shorten recovery all the same.

[buhwhyen]

Mmmm.....I might have to take back what I said about boxer dropping to B tier. 2 button TAP is way too good. Its so easy to charge to final while rushing without using the palm of your hand to hold buttons. Getting to level 3 TAP (the first lvl TAP that actually moves Rog forward) seems to take longer, but I never really played too much Rog in ST.

[buhwhyen]

I finally understand how to kara cancel, more specifically renda? canceling (chain canceling, like short short super/jab jab super). Its really just a matter of learning to link 3-4 crouching jabs/shorts with the last one being a standing jab/short. So cr.jab, cr.jab,cr.jab, st.jab and piano'ing another button for the special/super you want to cancel into on the last st.jab (same applies for shorts, but with shorts instead of jabs - duh).

The best way to start learning I found was to just get used to the rhythm of pressing the buttons with only crouching/standing stick inputs. So for Guile's short short flash kick (since this is a useful string anyways), start by doing cr.short, cr.short, st.short/roundhouse - the last input being piano'd. The standing short should be performed by just letting go of the stick rather than trying to move it back to neutral, it does make a difference. You should get a 3 hit combo of just shorts, the roundhouse input shouldn't actually do anything. This is really the biggest step because the shorts HAVE to be pressed in the same rhythm as linking 3 shorts, otherwise the flash kick won't combo. Once you get the 3 shorts to consistently link and you're piano'ing the st.short with roundhouse, add in the up motion to actually get the flash kick. This part is just awkward because the stick movement is actually a lot slower than you would think. Its really difficult to describe in words how fast to perform the flash kick, so when you try look for what happens WHEN you fail to combo the flash kick:

-if you're getting a jumping short
you pressed up too fast.

-if you're jumping roundhouse
you pressed roundhouse too late and probably didn't piano correctly from short to roundhouse

-if you're getting a roundhouse flash kick but it doesn't combo
your input timing of the last st.short was late, so you kara'd the flash kick but didn't combo

-if you get 3 shorts, 2 crouching 1 standing
you either pressed up too late or you piano'd to roundhouse too fast.

-if you get 3 shorts, 3 crouching
your timing for releasing to neutral/moving the stick to up is wrong


If you can get this combo down, its the same idea for a lot of other combos into super: ken's shortshortsuper, balrog (boxer) jabjabjabsuper, etc.


Another note, Ryu's super can be comboed from cr.forward consistently in this game and it has the added benefit of making the full super hit at any range a normal fireball would combo off cr.forward. Meaning it removes the minimum range/do not super range and will only not combo at max distance cr.forward.

[Pikachu]

Renda cancelling applies for some non-super combos too, like Guile's cr.short x2 into Flash kick. At the end of the day, renda cancels are kara cancels. Like how a square is a rectangle but not vice versa. They're just kara cancels done inside a combo using the chain properties of an attack. God, fighting game mechanics make heads explode sometimes. We should petition Berkeley to add a degree in fighter mechanics.

Low forward to super for Ryu is done by doing qcf, d+forward, df, f+any punch. So it's doing a fireball motion, then the low forward two-in-one.

[Pikachu]

Searching non-SRK sources for Super Turbo information can be a mixed blessing (unless you read Japanese, which then means you can access a lot of blogs for what I'd imagine would be a trove of info).

Here's a good place for a lot of ST miscellany. Not completely about gameplay, but it gives you a little more insight into the essence of the game: curryallergy.blogspot.com/

There are links to some neat things and Japanese videos, which are always hot.

And never go to MLG forums. Good Christ, there was this guy who claimed Vega was hard to play, and another who claimed his zoning ability sucked, couldn't turtle, and had weak normals.

Edit - And I hit someone with a Final TAP online. Ragequitted.

[Pikachu]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghgj2jB_Usg

Skip to around 7 minutes into the video, with Sirlin playing T.Hawk vs. another guy's Ken. Sirlin shows off a new secret weapon with T. Hawk.

[buhwhyen]

Random insight about Honda's hundred hand slap that I figured out a while ago, just never really got around to posting anything about it. The reason we were having trouble getting hand slaps to come out was because I think they changed how the game recognizes punch inputs. Previously you needed 5 inputs, in this case punches of any strength, for hand slaps. The best method was to piano in some fashion in order to get inputs, however it seems that now the game engine recognizes jab, strong, and fierce differently now that the move only requires 3 punch inputs.

An easy way to confirm it is to do a jump in fierce and tap fierce 3 times as the j.fierce hits (hand slaps actually comes out quite consistently). However, if you buffer the punches via piano-ing, even throwing out 6 or 9 piano-ed punch inputs almost never gets hand slaps to come out. Otherwise you can use the 2 finger method of tapping jab to get hand slaps to come out pretty consistently as well off a meaty jab or you can buffer with st.lk and tap fierce 3 times (similarly to how you would buffer RC hands/electricity in CVS2).

I'm not sure if this applies to other moves, maybe lightning legs/electricity? Never payed much attention to Chun Li or Blanka in this game, but Sirlin seriously needed to hire some better effing programmers. Oh...speaking of which, any and all connectivity problems (including random anus disconnects) with PSN (Yup... Its a PS3 only problem, MANbox live doesn't have connectivity problems). Its a software issue that a decent number of people are experiencing with only HD Remix. Some theorized causes for disconnects include: selecting a character color with start (LOL), having 100+ ping, other random gibberish shit that's also hella random.

[Pikachu]

Selecting characters with Start does pose problems.

You cannot piano inputs for mash moves like you do in CvS2 in ST. ST has always been like this. My problem has usually been with activating them with Fierce/Roundhouse. I haven't found any way to really tap a single button fast enough to get them out all the time, short of mashing really hard and breaking my stick.

[buhwhyen]

Online play is so aggravating, randomly not taking dp (no homo) inputs on wakeup, not recognizing charge times properly (for flash kicks), so today I switched to Honda. Keep in mind I haven't really ever practiced playing ST Honda and I was playing scoreboard matches. The only thing to really say is Honda is hilarious against scrubs. So many disconnects after I switched, there is a really lame tick throw option off of butt drop, particularly when it crosses up.

I think his match up isn't as good as I originally thought against fireball characters. Partially because charging for both headbutt and butt splash is a bitch online, but Ryu can actually fireball twice from some ranges during a single jab headbutt. Theres also a decent size window where Honda CAN'T headbutt on reaction to fireballs because of the start up of jab headbutt/super which is really really really aggravating.


I'm not sure why, but I cannot for the life of me negative edge ochio throw. Like...I even went into training mode and couldn't get it to come out off of a negative edged punch. And I can say pretty confidently whatever changes made to hand slaps priority was not enough. I got a few people to rage quit after I jump in fierce into hand slaps and took off 1/2 their life, 1/6 or so on block (it does WTF level chip damage). I can get hand slaps to come out easily off a jump in, the problem is finding a good move, or some recovery to buffer on the ground. Most of the time, that's not off a jump in, I use butt drop to buffer or jab headbutt (push back is a lot less on jab than fierce).

On the note of the removed ochio loop...it really doesn't even make a difference. If you can land a regular throw mid screen you can CROSS UP splash when they mash out and tick into ochio pretty easily. Similarly you can still walk up meaty st.jab and tick into another regular throw or ochio. Or go into Honda's "bnb" ground combo (st.jab x2, cr.fierce), or just sweep. Granted you can reversal dragon punch any of these, but as a mix up its a really demented. In the corner you also have the option of walking under and crossing up that way, the cross up splash also becomes ambiguous, timing depending.

I don't remember if it makes a difference which headbutt to use as anti air or just in general. I think they all have little/no invincibility and were basically the same minus speed/distance traveled, right?

[Pikachu]

I think jab is still the option to use, based on invulnerability that might be there, but fierce headbutt has the least startup at 5 frames.

I just play Honda as dumbly as possible to get random wins when I get annoyed.

[buhwhyen]

Found a decent site linked from SRK that explains the basics about all the characters. Granted, the info is based mostly off orig ST, but its a reasonably good beginners guide to each character. I don't know how good all the guides are, but I read the Guile guide, which was passable (though not everything they stated was entirely true).

www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/27/super-street-fighter-2-turbo-hd-remix-strategy-guide-moves-hints-and-tips/

[Pikachu]

Checked it out. The info isn't terrible, but isn't comprehensive either. They're good tips to keep in mind, though. Needs more shenanigans.

[buhwhyen]

Hooray patches!

shoryuken.com/?p=825

Please fix PSN issues...and Akuma.

[Pikachu]

Thank GOD. Fix the damn hitboxes on that idiot! Make Cannon Spike safe! Make Dhalsim limbs pure hitbox! I mean.. umm.. don't do that.

Actually fix 720's. That'll be good.

[buhwhyen]

Just do a real 720. It works just fine.