UMVC3

[buhwhyen]

I guess we should start a new thread for this, the game feels different and a few things don't work anymore. But overall...some mechanics feel weird (triangle jumping), but a lot of combos are exactly the same (or slight changes) despite nerfs that seemed like they were aimed at removing certain combos.

I haven't had too much time to play, but I've noticed that they really tried to cut back on the 10+ second long combos of death. It's really difficult to otg with assists to continue combos (they tech before you can really do anything now). And in general moves have less hit stun, so you can't have the same delays between attacks to potentially continue combos after landing.

As far as nerfs go...I don't think they did anything close to a good job. Dante still does the exact same combos (he just needs a shortened version for tiny characters), his damage is still on the high end, but he lost his BS air hammer, which is still not terrible after the nerf. Prop shredder and flame? dance randomly don't end properly and require better timing/positioning, but it's honestly nothing people won't learn to deal with. You just need to be better about your execution (seen videos of Yipes, and he really doesn't have any issues with dropping combos due to this). End result? Didn't change except hammer and can't easily link AA st.light into free combo.

Magneto...is aggravating for me, personally, but overall you can still do good damage of any hit. His combos generally revolve around his air only beam attack (forgot the name, 896 + attack) and instead of launcher, j.h, adf, j.m, j.h -> combo. You just do launcher, j.h, adf, j.h really not that different. Seems like they didn't touch the hit stun duration on his air only beam attack so that seems like it'll be the move of choice to extend combos and/or carry to corner. Disrupter is not amazing anymore. His triangle jump is still useable, but it feels more like Iron Man's triangle jump (but still better than Iron Man's triangle jump). The gravity attraction/repulsion move is pretty damn lackluster. Seems like it's only good for combos, might be okay for keep away, but since disrupter is not god like anymore, not sure why you would want to play keep away. Btw, he lost BS triangle jump offence, but if you ever get them blocking, he gained essentially instant overhead j.l. Basically if you jump straight up and instnatly air dash down with j.l, it might as well be an instant overhead, that shit is way too fast.

Wesker...got better. R.O.F.L. I saw Justin Wong do a Wesker combo where he's able to relaunch without an assist mid screen. The combo was ...cr.l, cr.m, st.h, s, j.h, j.s, land, otg gun, cr.m, st.h, s, j.m, j.h, j.s, land, otg gun (team super optional). Without super this shit did ~500-550k, wtfever. They nerfed his counter super, can't use it to make any normal safe against physical supers (might still be able to, but I think they took away the input once anytime during the super flash to get the move on the first possible frame after super flash). Wesker gets a free damage/move speed buff when he loses his sunglasses. Something like 10% if he uses a super and removes them himself, and 15%? if he breaks them (takes enough damage). Not sure exactly on the numbers... but free mini-Xfactory ftw. You can also teleport after qcf+l for really easy combos. And mashing his super makes it do reasonable damage.

Akuma is a lot less good now. His assist is no longer broken good (might as well be invincible good), but it seems useable still. You can still combo off of it if it hits to start a combo, but you can't use it to extend combos anymore (they pop out really quickly). They made his relaunch combo more difficult, still very doable, but the timing is even tighter than it was before. Lowered his health so when you hit him, you feel like you're hitting Akuma. Overall...still good. But might be too squishy to anchor teams now.

Wolverine...whatever, hes still fast. I think he lost the multiple distances on berserker slash, so it's easier to tell if its gonna cross up or not. Dive kick is less good, but still works. Doesn't seem like the nerf was that huge of a deal. Losing strong level 1 Xfactor probably hurts more than anything else.

Phoenix..actually got nerfed. But the addition of the side exchange removing meter really hurts all Phoenix teams. Since you really will want to mash side exchange so you keep your meter, down exchange still gives a ton of meter, and up exchange now boasts a damage increase for the remainder of the combo. Biggest nerf is limiting her to 1 fireball per jump. So...probably less good, but still retarded.

Ammy...got reasonable nerfs. She can no longer link any two moves she wants. This means combos are slightly more timing intensive and some don't work anymore. Overall, doesn't feel that different, but her air dash is definitely a lot worse than it was before. Oh, and it's way more difficult to combo into level 3 now after an air combo. You have to link a single st.h instead of st.m, st.h into lvl 3, otherwise they pop out.

She Hulk is pretty bad now too. Lost safe slide, which is one of the things that made her so dumb, that and Tron assist. Doesn't seem that strong anymore.

Zero got raped pretty badly. His damage of H is really low comparatively. I like this change cause Zero had too much reward for such low risk. They seem to have changed the knockback on some of his moves as well. A bunch of Zero players were dropping hella combos on WNF.

Virgil...is really good. His stinger x dp+heavy hits front then cross up and can be made safe by activating devil trigger and if it hits, you get a free combo. Has pretty good damage off a single meter (600k ish), but if you burn 2 meters, it jumps to ~850-875k, more if you have an otg assist.

Doom...why did they make Doom so good? J.s gives you so much time to otg into combo. Dive kicks are faster and have similar priority, j.h is more useable, and all his old combos still work and do about the same damage (most of the cast's damage got toned down).

Tron is useless. Nerfed assist, j.h knocks back now so you can only combo it in the corner. Rocks also isn't cancelable? or something like that, so her combos are a lot weaker.

Chris seems a lot better now? Only saw one video, but magnum into magnum into magnum? or something like that. He did a decent chunk of damage while zoning.

Taskmaster got a pretty big buff in the change to throw techs. You can now tech at any time, even during one of your moves. So he can throw tech after blocked swing, which was the only consistent way to push it. Dunno why this was necessary, he was already really damn good.

Storm has actual damage now (kinda). Mostly unchanged, but better now because the rest of the cast got worse. Yay indirect buffs. Supers also hit a lot harder (thx mashing).

Trish just hits harder now. Yay...? Might be playable now. Doesn't feel like anything else was really changed.

Supposedly C.Viper got buffed? Not sure how exactly. Might consider playing her a bit later.

Dormamu...lost carpet. Don't think he'll be amazing. He was already pretty mediocre, now...I don't know if he'll be able to really keep people out sufficiently.

Hawkeye hits like a little girl. But his arrow super is really good. Kinda feels like a mobile SF4 Guile. Zones really well, but takes 5 billion hits to kill.

Nemesis seems really dumb good. This is probably what Hulk should have been like in the first place.

Ghost rider has really solid keep away and pretty good damage. He's able to combo off of full screen hits. With assists he can most hits into a combo. Seems pretty solid.

Nova might be a really good character just because of his assist (it hits overhead). Free unblockables off of mashing cr.l? As a point character is seems pretty lacking, though he does hit pretty hard when he manages to land a combo. His air dash sucks ass, except for the above mentioned jump straight up and air dash down with light. Though...his cr.l doesn't hit low, so it's a much less good trick if they manage to block the overhead.

[Pikachu]

Yeah, haven't been back in a while. Been spending some time in training mode though.

Magneto is still good, just in different ways. I got flight combos to work in ghetto ways (j.h, ad, j.m, flight, j.l, j.h, ad, etc). Mid screen he can still ROM, but you have to superjump forward for it now, and it's considerably less forgiving than before. However, in the corner, I think his ROM got better. With a different timing, you can superjump straight up and dash straight down. For Hypergrav loops, I just got lazy and I do sj.forward, addf j.m, h, Hypergrav.

Trying to get Magnetic Blast loops to work the way I want. The ones I've been doing are just... too short. I like that they build good meter, though.

So Attraction/Repulsion/Gravitation are like... interesting. Pulling people into Sentinel drones has been useful. Also, backdash, OTG Attraction , Magnetic Shockwave makes for an occasionally useful midscreen combo ending in super.

I find I have to use these moves pre-emptively. Repulsion and Gravitation at the right time really throws off someone's approach. I also saw a setup that I found interesting combined with Nova's overhead assist. After a hard knockdown in the corner, you use Repulsion OTG to make sure they can't roll out of the corner. Then you call Nova and c.l them. I'm not sure if it's completely airtight, but Repulsion OTG keeping corner pressure is a good tool. Will be trying Attraction to throw off people's rolls as well when I get the chance.

Zero is not nerfed. I thought he was until I played against someone who has a decent Zero at the office. He's different, but still stupid, because his Blaster just creates different openings than before. I guess he's similar to Magneto in "nerfs"... the players just needed to change behavior for similar output.

Zero's electric dive thing makes such ambiguous crossups when a character is coming in. It's so aggravating to deal with, because the player sometimes does not know which way they're trying to make you block. Lawl.

Not sure if you know this about Wesker, but I didn't know this existed until I saw Yipes do it:

L command grab, immediate dash, c.mhs, combo

No need to waste your wall bounce off the throw, works anywhere. Apparently this existed in Vanilla, but I've never seen anyone do it in tournaments. Go figure?

Wolverine is less fast. Not much else to say there, I think he's still viable.

Vergil is aggravating because I can't decide on BnB's for him and I don't know what team to fit him on. I guess I can learn Dante and play the "trench coat" team. What a fag fanboy team this is.

I think Ryu might finally be quite competitive. Overhead into S gives him a good opening and his devil trigger move gives him some interesting options.

Nemesis is a dumb character, but I think Hulk is still better. Hulk hits better angles with stand H and can kara cancel into Gamma Charge for safety. He was a strong Day 1 character, but I don't see him lasting at this point. It's too bad, because I was looking forward to having another large retard character to troll people with.

Storm is the best DHC partner around. Just thought I'd bring that up. With X-Factor in the air for Hail, it's hilarious.

I hated that Sentinel couldn't RP into HSF... at first. I don't really give a shit anymore. Just have to change the X-Factor combo. I may drop him in favor of having Vergil assist, or just try to learn Doom. It's not so much that Sentinel has been changed or what not, but I genuinely fear the Hawkeye match as Sentinel.

Speaking of Cockeye, I'm glad his AHVB doesn't combo into itself outside of X-Factor.

Nova hits like a truck. Wtf is up with this idiot?

I think Super Skrull is actually good now. I just can't play him.

They clearly buffed Spencer. I don't know why. This puzzled me just as much as Wesker. Under ideal conditions, he can pull off 800k with one meter.

And Combofiend plays Nova/Hawkeye/Spencer. It's like Nova is a better She-Hulk, and Hawkeye is a better Taskmaster. So stupid.

I hear Arthur may be decent now. I don't believe it yet, but I will look into this.

Morrigan is another former low-tier I want to try out. Her new flight speed is so fast that the air-dash block removal doesn't seem to matter.

[Pikachu]

For Magneto at starting position-ish on the stage:

c.lmhs, j.h, addf, j.h, sj. j.h, addf, j.h, straight jump up, j.h, ad, j.m, j.h, land, [h, Hypergrav, sj up, ad, j.m, j.h]x2, h, Hypergrav, Magnetic Tempest (~745k)

This is a bnb I'm trying to get down a lot more consistently, using the alternate Hypergrav loop, which for me feels a lot better to do.

Playing around with Dr. Doom as well. I always wanted to use Doom, but his bnb in Vanilla was so finnicky that I could not stand using it. The new bnb is more complex, but very reliable and damaging:

c.lmhs, j.mx2, j.forward+h, j.s, addf, whiff m, trijump forward, stand h, s, repeat loop.

Endings vary in j.mx2 to Photon Array or if in corner, addf, plasma beam xx Photon Array. The combo is surprisingly fun to do.

[buhwhyen]

I still can't like the new Magneto. People say he might be better than the old Magneto, but I think you just have better choices now if you want to zone and better choices if you want to rush down. I guess he's okay if you want to be decent at both? Combos are just different, but overall do about the same thing, though it feels like it takes a lot more effort to do them. (and i hate the 896 + attack motion). I've never seen anyone really use repulsion/attraction to any significant effect. Too much startup/recovery to be utilized on reaction (unless they're super jumping and staying in the air), and not so effective that you can't get through it (even with assist back up).

The bigger issue I have with Magneto is actually how to deal with specific match ups. Now that he can't zone effectively with EM disrupter, how do you really deal with Wolverine and I guess Iron Fist now, who start on point or second and are just going to run at you. Repulsion really doesn't feel like it can help with those kind of match ups. And assists are a lot worse for dealing with rush down overall.

Doom foot stomp...best air normal. Though I still can't play Doom in general. Oddly, I actually find his old finnicky combo a lot easier to do than Clockwork's spaz footdive combo. I keep getting random air exchanges, but more importantly his triangle jump has this weird delay because his jump start up is a lot slower than say Magneto. And since I'm used to Magneto triangle jumps, the timing on Doom's triangle jumps feels awkward. Probably could get over both the footdive problem and triangle jump problem...but I still suck with Doom on point. But more importantly I'm probably not going to bother with Doom is actually because I don't really feel like I "need" Doom assist now, though I don't think Doom assist is ever necessarily bad.

Wesker's L command grab has always been like that. You were free to act right after he kicks them back. I think people used to use gun to combo after it. It was definitely an East Coast thing, there wasn't a huge reason to use it over the H version of the move since you essentially got the same damage out of it.

The bullshit new stuff about Wesker actually revolves mostly around the new teleport off qcf + L. Now you can lmh x qcf + L x L teleport, otg gun, cr.mh x qcf + M, mhs, j.h, j.s, land, otg gun -> mix up. Hella damage, hella meter gain, no meter used. Alternatively you can throw in lvl 3 after the wallbounce instead of launching or go into ultimate wesker? in the air instead of kicking them down. And you can make qcf + L safe by just teleporting on block.

Honestly though...Wesker is a lot worse than he used to be. The nerf to gun really hurts and you can't super cancel your normals (into counter super) during other people's super flash.

Nova...hits like a grown man. His combos are very Marvel. lmhs, j.h, fly, j.h, unfly, j.h, land, dash, cr.hs, j.h, j.s, f + h, s, j.h x super. Just hhhhhhhhhhh. Less braindead than Amateratsu, but this combo is still hilarious, it also hits for ~750k. I still don't know that he's that great as a point character, he really lacks a solid high low mix up. Hes alright? as a zoning character, but I have issues getting openings with him. He does have a level 3 x-factor infinite, though. His rocket super is also projectile invincible and also safe on block, which is a pretty big plus.

Wolverine wasn't nerfed. Capcom failed. He actually does more damage now than before because he can link 2 supers together. Apparently his damage is roughly 1 million with 2 meters. And can do this even off of some assists that leave the character in a juggle state.

Iron Fist...hurts. Another character capable of linking 2 supers for really dumb damage. Interestingly, Jwong showed off some really cool stuff with Iron Fist. This includes 1 million damage solo combos with 2 meters, and also that in a single combo with green chi activated, he can build a full meter and still combo into a snap back against Phoenix (not "Wright" though I do find it ironic how he is never the right pick) teams. He is really ground based though, so he has tons of really bad match ups, particularly against people who like attacking from the air (Marvel -> lot).

Felicia actually is probably gonna be a sleeper high tier character. Her Bnb does ~700-750k with minor variations depending on size.

I'm still not entirely convinced that Zero wasn't nerfed. A lot of people are calling him the new Wesker...but I think it's an overreaction. He does have his dumb lighting rush that's really just a random 50/50 which way to block, but he can't convert all those hits into tons of damage anymore (seems like he can easily do it in corner, but out of corner is a lot more limiting). His dash mix ups are still there and really good. His damage off the shadow super's combos are a lot lower too, though that stupid fireball blockstring shit still works. Frankly when you're coming in, just about everyone has really stupid ambiguous shit that's difficult to block, so I'm not sure I'd really consider Zero's so amazing.

Vergil...I can't really decide if he's mid tier or not. With meter he has 100% combos on everyone (just spazz spiral swords over and over), his teleport is good enough, actually the fact that he has a teleport makes him a lot better in this game. Garbage air mobility, but good ground mobility. I hate all of his assists, so I always play him first, athough he benefits tons from having meter a lot more than most characters. So on the other hand, it feels like a waste to put him first when he has such high damage potential with meter. His link into a second qcf super is really random. You have to adjust the timing of the first super, then mash and hope you get a random hit at the very end of the super, then you can link high time into another super after landing. His overall mix ups aren't that great, honestly. You can get decent openings off stinger x dp + H if you're willing to burn meter and go into DT, though on block you're stuck in DT and can't build meter (but still safe on block). And his level 3 is DT only, though it does do around 600k. Which is good damage, but 4 meters (and zero meter gained) to kill a character really isn't that acceptable unless it's their last character.

I think Hawkeye will destroy at least a few character's viability to be honest. His zoning ability with assists is so dumb I didn't want to watch it anymore. I can only imagine how annoying that shit is to deal with. Hawkeye on point actually seems a lot better than as an assist (though his assist is really good). Hawkeye/Doom/Sentinel made for some really gross games to watch, though I really felt like this level of zoning potential raised all characters with teleports to a higher tier just because they have potential ways to deal with this gay keep away bullshit.

[Pikachu]

I'm pretty much on the same boat with you when it comes to Vergil. His Rapid Slash assist is quite good... with a select few characters that I don't really play. I don't like anchoring with him because he's underwhelming in X-Factor and he's not the best point character. If I play him second, then he's a black hole for meter, which makes me feel like I want to build my team around him since:

1. He needs characters that'll battery for him and an anchor that doesn't care for it.
2. I only use his setup for setup moments, rather than zoning purposes since I'm putting him second.
3. Zero paired with Vergil is good, and playing them together makes me too feminine.

That's just my bias, especially now that Vergil's novelty has worn off. His potential seemed so great until you realize how much meter he eats in a game where meter is less abundant.

I do see what you're saying about Zero, but really good ones have built their teams around him and the synergy is insane. Yeah, a lot of BS exists, but I think his is a step above most others, just for that ambiguity when another character is coming in. Of all the characters I play against, I find Zero among the most stressful to come in against besides Vanilla Wolverine and Spencer. When that momentum snowballs, it's just all bad.

Iron Fist = funny. I think he'll turn out to be like Vanilla She-Hulk in the sense that there's tons of potential to just run like a Murloc at people until they die, but only a few players will be able to pull that off.

Doom has been making a little more sense since I practiced with him, but... yeah, more than anything I just want Sentinel out of my team. He was intended to be a fag character that would TOD anything because of X-Factor, and it's just a fradulent crutch. I can do the unfly zoning now and all that, but it's not a satisfactory pursuit if I'm going to put effort. And so, why not Doom? Open to suggestions, though. Spencer? Hawkeye? Something retarded and top-tier will work, but my brain does not seem to click with Zero.

[buhwhyen]

Well, there's nothing wrong with Doom persay. I just think he struggles as a point character against zoning teams. His mobility can get shut down pretty badly by Hawkeye teams, or anyone with horizontal space control just above the ground (roughly triangle jump height). Since I use Doom more as an assist character (anchor), if I ever get into a situation where its only Doom left on my team and my opponent has (pick any 2) of Nova/Magneto/Doom/Ammy/Hawkeye/Dante/Sentinel, then I just don't feel like Doom has a reasonable chance at making a comeback cause they can just zone you out. I find this particularly bothersome since zoning is so good in UMVC3. I guess you could put Doom 2nd, but then you (preferably) need another good assist from your anchor character.


As far as team building goes...it really depends whether you want to zone or try to beat zoning teams. Zoning teams like Hakweye/Dormamu + Sentinel/Doom assist is really difficult to rush down. But since you wanted to replace Sentinel that means you're looking mostly for an assist/anchor character? I've actually started to wonder if using Magneto as an anchor is a better choice for him. His EM disrupter assist has always been good, he never really *needed* assists to get openings, and he's still really fast in Xfactor and builds a good chunk of meter for himself if your 2nd character uses it all.

Hawkeye I actually think is a better point character than as an assist/anchor. His zoning game is way better with assists than without and his damage without Xfactor is very lackluster. Even with Xfactor it still only hits ~850k? maybe 900k? But his combos can be a little inconsistent going into the corner and particularly against midget characters.

As far as projectile/beam assists go, I think your choices really boil down to Magneto/Doom/Dante for anchor characters (maybe Hawkeye...but I prefer him on point as mentioned earlier). Dante's weasel shot assist works, but really shouldn't be used like Doom/Magneto beams, it's more like ammy assist. If you're not set on beam assists, something like Dormamu/Akuma/Spencer/Nova might work, though Dormamu/Spencer are probably better as a 2nd character rather than an anchor. Nova benefits more from having assists than not, but he does have a true Xfactor infinite because his medium centurion rush? causes a forced ground bounce.

And I can't believe I haven't mentioned Strider yet. He's a giant douchebag with level 3 Xfactor and meter. Though, like Akuma, he dies in a stiff breeze. And Vajra assist is really dumb.

Right now I'm mostly playing Wesker(gun)/Dante(weaselshot)/Akuma(tatsu).

Though I've been experimenting with:
Hawkeye/Doom(missiles)/Akuma(tatsu) and
Dante(weasel)/Nova(overhead)/Wesker(gunshot).

I haven't been able to find a team for Strider yet. Doesn't really seem like he needs anything specific, just a team that will leave him with xfactor and some meter.

I've pretty much given up on Vergil, it just feels like Dante is better overall (nh). Morrigan seems like a reasonable choice if you want to play something really meter hungry like Vergil/Dante/Morrigan. Cause Vergil really only needs Dante assist to function (homo). Morrigan is better, but still a really crap anchor overall (Really difficult to get hits without assists).