Reflections on Sat. 11/3

[phetus]

It's just entirely struck me. It's as Brian said, and as Josh indirectly said. EXECUTION, EXECUTION, EXECUTION!!!!!! For fucks sake, my execution blows! Although I can't speak the same for Josh and Brian, as they're far more advanced than I, I notice Jon and I drop combo all over, miss openings, fail to dash after certain pressure moves or to continue combos, miss FRC points, etc. I'm not trying to rag on Jon, as I have far worse execution currently, but for the sake of constructive critisism, WE SUCK! Lol. Seriously, fighters boil down to mind games in the end. That's where the genius comes in, but we're playing with our hands behind our backs! What good does envisioning things go... when you can't pull it off at _least_ 95% of the time? I mean, would you go to a magic tournament with only one dual land, 3 counterspells, 2 accumulated knowledge, 1 morphling, random trash and only 12 islands because you couldn't find any more? GOD GRIEF! I must be retarded to think I can play without a proper deck. I'm not looking to immeadiatly hop into impossible dusts and jump installs or what not.... but my hands simply cannot do what my brain is tell them right now. That's the skill I have to work on. That's what will improve my game the most. Goddamnit, why couldn't you guys just come out and say it? Grow some goddamned balls. Anyways, I guess all that means is, I have to up my time spent in training mode.

That said. I'm still finding difficulties in discerning what the hell my random combos are supposed to do. I'd like to be a lot more deliberate than I currently am (obviously). I need to attempt to get up to speed on yet another character before our next play session hopefully. As I've mentioned earlier to some of you, Sol just doesn't have what I'm looking for. Looking closer at the reasons I'm frustrated with Sol (other than my crappy execution), I'm not certain I'll be happy with Robo Ky in the end either. Both characters lack a solid high/low game. Whenever I start pressuring and rushing, I like to be trying to land a combo. That's what I mean by more deliberate. I don't understand why I'm blindly rushing in and trying to frame trap people over and over (and failing.. but that's besides the point.). That just doesn't put me in the right mentality. I should note however, that Robo Ky can zone a lot better than sol, and does an asston of random damage that way. Whether that can keep me interested, I'll have to see, but currently, I think that having to keep track of so much while playing him is a nice distraction from not knowing what the hell to do on Sol except run forwards. Obviously, I'm not going to get up to speed on another character before Tuesday(not that I'm up to speed on _any_ character, but it was worth mentioning I thought.

Lastly, in the interest of getting my execution somewhere closer to everyone elses, I have a favor to ask. Watch me when I play (or maybe you already have something in mind), and tell me what's the poorest aspects of my inputs. Without a doubt, you're all going to spam me with comments that I input too fast. I know this... unfortunatly, it's been slow to change, but it has been changing. I rarely double tap anymore, and that's been a huge improvement. If anyone could come up with shit that I could practice in training mode, just to help timing or whatever. Any sort of "assignment" would probably help me week to week. I'm really trying to get better here, and I'd appretiate any insight or direction. Thanks guys. I'll post again later if anything else pops into my mind, but I'm certain you're already sick of my obnoxiously long posts.

[buhwhyen]

Before I start on the whole critisism thing I just have to say that if you can come up with something a little more specific, ie, how to dust, how to air combo, how to IAD, something about FDC, etc, or at least something less general than execution, it becomes a lot easier for us to think of something to say/write.

Well as far as inputs go, your inputs for jumps/jump cancels is something I've been noticing. You tend to hit up or up/forward and hold it while going for your air combos. But when inputting for jump cancels, they should be single taps up (7/8/9) and you shouldn't be holding up. Your inputs also seem really frantic when doing your jump combos, I assume cause they feel really fast/awkward to do, compared to like CVS2 and other games that you're more used to, but there is a very specific timing to button inputs, particularly in air combos. Naturally each characters input timing is different, but you might try to be more like Josh and look for visual cues to help slow down/better time your inputs for air combos/ground strings.

If you're looking for a way to practice air combos (non sidewinder stuff), find an easy to do launcher..like 6P, 5S, 2HS or something. then just jump cancel the 2HS into j.k, j.s, JC, j.s, j.hs, volcanic viper. Or just wild throw into some air combo just to get a feel for jump combos.

Another thing I've noticed, though this one is a lot less execution based and a lot more play-style based, is your choices of when to FD. Since you're playing Sol, eventually you'll probably be better, when running in, blocking rather than throwing something out. The best way to do this is to FDC your run. This also applies to your jump ins, some should be FDC'd to block some anti-airs that you're likely not be able to beat by throwing out a jumping move. Instead of using FD on random hits to push them back further, you should probably use it more to block things that you wouldn't otherwise be able to block without it (some moves you have to FD in the air to block, in fact a decent number of 6Ps and other good anti air moves I think).

And one last thing I'll throw out cause its stupid easy to practice is run jumping. So..normally to jump, from neutral you'd just hit 7/8/9, to jump whichever way. Theres a way to change the trajectory of your jump, in this case more horizontal movement by running before you go into your jump. You might have already noticed how you can do this, but you can actually do it from a standstill and not a full blown dash across the screen. The input to do it is either 669 or 447, depending on which way you're facing. And obviously you can only run jump forward. And I find the easiest way is to just do a normal run and roll the stick up to the up right or up left.

[Pikachu]

There's an old, old, old series of articles (Domination 101) written by Seth Kilian about improving one's game. He devoted an entire article screaming at everyone to get better at execution. It talks a lot about what Al just mentioned, that it doesn't mean dick what you can think of if you can't make it happen on the screen. Execution means everything from grasping basics of the game engine to making sure your character's advanced setups/combos will hit when you need it to. The Magic analogy definitely applies here.

Actually, I've mentioned execution as a problem already, but I don't reiterate it too much since I don't exactly practice this 100% myself. This is just stuff that takes lots of time and lots of effort. The worst part about execution, though, is that it's like diving. People can kinda tell you how to do it, but you have to get it right for yourself.

Al, besides execution, make a few combos up, good or bad. Do some stupid ones, too. Every last bit of experiementing helps. Go through every last gatling chain you can think of. You'd be surprised at how inspired you'll feel about your pressure strings after a while, too. You want "homework"? Finish and practice this Sol combo in 4 different ways: k, s, 2d, bandit revolver (RC)...

Try some basic endings, and try some fancy ones. I'm not advertising this as a great opener, but I guarantee you that you'll just learn something new about Sol that can be applied to other openings and maybe even other characters.

I'm gonna go practice what I preach. I need to work up my execution so I don't get predictable, too. When I can't execute, the number of possible things I can do dwindles, and I find myself relying on the same old shit that everyone will eventually see coming. And I need to work on blocking from low to high. Again.

[phetus]

You guys are great. I know I was vague, but really... there's just so much I need to work on right now, so any one point you mention, is huge to me.

Brian, great calls. I do know that I don't tap up, but hold up for JCing, but I had no idea that was a bad thing, in addition, I seemed to have trouble getting my second JC (in the air) and I'm certain correcting that will help. I'm not sure this means a damn thing as game physics are so different, but I've never played a game seriously that has real air combos. And no, Alpha 3 didn't count when you reversal with ryu's srk and jump up with mp. I simply feel like I'm in a rush mentally to catch the person and get my hits in before they tech, so I'm definatly feeling frantic and mashing the buttons. One of the few times I still double tap frequently is when I'm trying to connect the first hit of an air combo I'm not familiar with landing. My timing with ground and air combos has to loosen up so I can actually feel the combos.

Thanks for bringing up the run jumping again. The last time you mentioned it, I thought you were refering to running.... and then jumping.... which... well... is obvious. However, as soon as you mentioned that this time, a ton of recent moments hit me where I was like, "Dude... that's a sweet jump angle." and not once did I question why I wasn't doing it or how to do it. I will practice this. I think I need to fix up my stick itself to help me get some of these down. Though I'm sure plenty of people out there can play fine on this stick, it's just way too mushy for me. I have issues with instant air dash and running forward and accidentally 6Ping or dragon punching. I need to consult you about this and go order one. Josh keeps telling me that it's fine to play on a square actuator and that lots of people do it, but I now question if it's just fine, or if it's ideal. Any thoughts? I can't lie and say I don't miss being able to pull off all my moves. I've only ever liked square actuators for charge characters.

Before the play session on saturday, I actively thought about trying to run up FDC more, hence my crappy destruction of the stone cold phrase in my other post. However, I just found that I never felt in control enough of the match to run forward and FDC. Obviously this will help me get in, but you guys pressure me _so_ hard(because you can push me around... and should be.), that I mentally just kept on trying to lash out and keep hit boxes and shit flying out at you _anytime_ I could. Which lead to me eating quite a bit of random shit. I will try harder to control my impulses.

Chan, I assume that HW was for choosing random air combos right? I look forward to messing with that.

Thanks for all in input guys. I'll try to work on it a little bit this afternoon/evening before tomorrow. Girlfriend duties just take up so much time.

[Pikachu]

Yeah, basically just create some air combo variations. Nothing fancy. It's more important that you can just do it with little thought. I'm not sure this is a one day endeavor, so don't get discouraged.

Oh yeah, two more things, both relevant:

1. While doing combos, you need to be able to get some muscle memory into your hands. At the same time, you must discipline yourself not to get railroaded into certain sequences. Some people seem to have no problem with this, while others, like myself, do. I'm mentioning this right here to prevent the development of new bad habits.

2. Know when to vary your strings. For instance, you're doing the j.s, j.d sequence too much now. It's fantastic in the corner because you can follow up with k, 2hs, air combo, but mid screen, you're landing two decent hits, and just resetting your own momentum. Give j.s, j.hs a try. If you hit that sequence in mid air, cancel it into uppercut and get your knockdown. If you hit that while they're grounded, go into k, 2d, bandit revolver. Note the lack of a slash in that combo. This is to increase the chance of revolver hitting and putting them closer to the corner.

3. Ok, I lied. Three things. Remember you can chain something simple into Grand Viper. I don't advocate doing this all the time, but if you find your reactions to hit confirmation improving (which is far easier to do in this game than CvS2), go for comboing into a clean hit Grand Viper. It's decent damage for no tension, and it's not too hard getting one Sidewinder clean hit right after. Just posting this here to increase your damage options, because that's what Sol should always look for. Anyhow, I wish I could be more help with Robo Ky, because I know you'd rather play him, but I hope this much is helpful somehow.

[Duragar]

Well, with Alvin's reflections mostly on the table, it seems only appropriate that the biggest scrub of the group request advice and observations.

I'm always going on and on, in and out of game, about how my execution blows. If anyone should be the poster child of why you need to get your execution down, it would be me. Countless times during my games on Saturday, you would probably see me throw out a stun edge right when someone was above me in prime uppercut position. That would be because I meant to Vapor Thrust. I can barely consistently do single moves, much less combo. My execution is absolutely balls. Recently, I've had more time to work on that, but that's going to be a long-standing issue for a while. I pretty much agree to everything you guys have put on the table on this subject, so I'll limit myself from going on any further on this subject.

So... I'm fairly certain that my biggest issue is nailing down my psychology in this game. It's not even opponents psyching me out - I'm psyching myself out. A good portion of the time, I know what's coming and I know what I can do to counteract it, but I get over-eager and go for the counters entirely too early, and eat shit on a counter hit combo. This pretty much goes for all of my own combos, too. I know some okay strings to go with, but I frequently input too quickly and thus my combo peters out.
This particularly becomes an issue when I've been playing for a while. You may have noticed that my rounds won-lost ratio was a lot higher when we started playing (Jon's attempts at killing my scrubbiness with Greed Sever aside), and steadily decreased as we continued to play. I was pretty much playing the whole time starting out, with Al, Jon and Brian switching in and out at their leisure. I usually do all right in endurance runs on games, but with fighting games, I have proabably the least 'stamina,' with the exception of soul calibur. I can, (and used to frequently) play that all day.
I suppose what I'm trying to get at with those last two paragraphs is this - how does one practice maintaining composure and control when there isn't currently a human opponent available to practice against?

So... with all that said, though, I'm not entirely happy with Ky. Hot-for-Sol-ness aside, I really like the style of his attacks and movement. Badass white knight with lightning based attacks... Those of you who were in my HERO system game know who that sounds like. But I'm rapidly getting more and more tired of my effective combos doing a fraction of the damage other character's combos do. As Josh has frequently said about Ky on multiple occasions, you do a hell of a lot of work for very little pay-off. I can do stupid shit like land 6H 5H for random damage, and poke/zone people with regular/charged stun edges and j.D/FBj.D, but it gets very frustrating when I get a couple good pressure strings in, and suddenly one combo from my opponent later I'm more than behind on health, so I get impatient and do stupid things (like rushed super motions until my stick snaps, greed sever over and over, all this going back to the psychology section).
Which brings me to my next question - if not Ky, is there any suggestions on who plays similarly to Ky, but maybe does more damage? I know for many of the characters, it's based entirely on the player's style of play... but for what you've observed with me, do you have any suggestions on who I should give a shot, or should I just stick with Ky? Sorry about giving you a loaded question like this - It's really up to me to nail down a character I like to play - but some feedback on the subject would be appreciated.

Let's see... as far as my observations go for you guys... I'm perhaps not the best judge on these things, but here's my input. As NONE of us can stress enough, we all need to work on our execution, so I'm going to say that now and get it out of the way. But that said, here's my individual observations. You guys know me - I'm pretty passive when it comes to criticism - so please believe me when I say I mean no offense to you guys for anything said at this point. This is strictly the business of helping to improve our overall game.

Alvin - You suffer from the same problem I do - you get overeager to dish out the pain. When I'm in control of myself, I see a lot of your moves coming, and I make you pay for them when my execution isn't suck. (with the exception of invincible wake-up uppercuts. God damn Sol).

The Brothers Ng - I might be talking out my ass here... but I think Craig had an important observation, despite his reluctance to actually practice the game. You're both pretty good at most fighting games you get your hands on, so you end up playing really casually. You'll let me get away with a lot of shit that I shouldn't be getting away with(aside from when you sit down and actively work on stopping my scrubby shit), and you also seem to gravitate more towards annoying stuff than effective stuff (aside from Potempkin and maybe Slayer... anything that bastard does = damage). With anyone else, it's kind of like you're just going through the motions on combos. Good practice on knowing what's coming when you go against your off-characters, but personally I think it's not really helpful for keeping the competitive edge for when Al and I finally do reach your level of play.

Josh - Probably the diametric opposite of Jon and Brian... your excecution is better than mine or Al's, but whenever you do miss something, you get really agitated over it. You're calmer than me and alvin, so when you play us it's not as big an issue, but my observation is that it isn't when you miss a combo that you eat shit, it's after you've missed a combo and you're rushing to keep the pressure up that you jump into a pile of shit and get counter hit for man-tastic damage.

Me - Like I said on my commentary for Vin - Entirely too over-eager and psyched out. The brothers Ng demonstate that quite frequently when I play them, and Josh demonstrates it whenever he gets good pressure on me. As a side note, I really should learn other characters more, so I have an even better idea of what's coming, not just from our group's play habits, but for the whole nature of the game. Dedicating my practice time with Ky is good and all, but I don't have enough practice in dealing with other peoples moves, and consistently waiting my opponent out for openings.

So... With all that said and done, please comment on what I've said. Let me know if you see what I see, or if you're not so sure that my observations are on par with what's actually going on.

Okay, so I'm now eating into work time. I need to end this post. I hope my point of view has been enlightening, or at least discussion inspiring.

Thus is the word of DUR!

[Pikachu]

Your observations about me are true to a certain degree. Less so during combos, but more so during dropped pressure strings. You should realize that I'm also very apt to eat a random hit that I'll assume I shouldn't need to worry about because it's incredibly high risk... this is more of an issue for me when I relax my pressure too much.

I hope this doesn't sound snide, Chip, but try more combos first before worrying about your damage output. Ky has more than just Greed Sever loops, which get prorated down to 85% unless you score a counterhit with it. If that's your main avenue of combos, you'll see your lack of damage really quickly. You have also got to learn how to finish your gatling chains when you hit, because you're losing a lot of damage when you don't take advantage of free hits. I've seen a lot of stuff like 6p, c.s, s, nothing. How about adding a sweep to the end of that and dropping a charged stun edge over their bodies while you run in for more mixups? Even if your mixup after that sweep is something as basic as 2p, tick throw, that's at least 15% more life you've taken from the opponent.

I saw some progress on your dust combos. That certainly helps your output, and is indicative of improving execution. What I'd suggest is to do a full dust combo: 5d, j.s, j.s, j.s (end of chase jump), j.p, j.s, j.p, j.s (jc), dj.s, dj.hs, vapor thrust, lightning javelin

As for Ky as a character, honestly, his damage isn't bad. It's just mediocre. Even after you try really damn hard for a fancy pants opening that the opponent won't see coming, your damage is still just mediocre. Some characters are like this, but can compensate for it when they have tension. Ky? Well, you can cancel into super I guess, but that's nowhere near the potency of Slayer, where he can just go, "Oh look... I hit c.s, s, and I have tension. SUPER! Yay 40%+ damage! LOLOL!111```" When you want to lay down a huge beating, you have to work for a really sweet opening and then make sure you don't botch the combo, or pray that the opponent has to fall for the opening. Compare that to Eddie, where for that same amount of work, you can probably get a double unblockable into an IK. This doesn't make Ky bad. This just makes him mid-tier.

My point is this: he's still playable and competitive. I won't go the distance with Ky as a personal choice when I'm just being a tier whore and need to improve the characters I already play. Don't let that opinion stop you from playing Ky. If you get to the point where you're maximizing his openings and not getting the return you want AND it makes playing Ky a dissatisfying experience, switch. Ky actually has some of the most creative pressure strings of any character in Guilty Gear, but they take a lot of practice and effort to utilize. There's a lot left for you to explore, and since it sounds like you at least enjoy playing Ky, I'd say you should keep it up. You're showing a lot of signs of being on the right track and just need to familiarize yourself with the feel of the game engine as well as the mindgames that exist.

Lastly, there's no substitute for learning how to stay cool under pressure during a live game. Things that can help is just to play more training mode. While it's useful for practicing combos (make sure you set the CPU dummy to recover "front"), you should also use it to examine the properties of all your hits, and learn how to adapt it. AC's training mode is INCREDIBLE. I had no idea what some of the new features were since I didn't read enough Japanese, but after looking through the US version, I'm in complete awe of what ArcSys has provided us. Need to practice a counter hit greed sever combo? Set properties of the dummy under the counter tab to "first", and just hit them with a Greed Sever. You'll get the huge ground bounce and know how to adjust accordingly when you see it. Besides that, practice some FRC's, and set the dummy to guard all attacks, and just pressure it the best you can. It won't make you a godly player, but it'll make you better for sure.

[phetus]

O.M.G!!! Brian, you rock. Those few things you mentioned were able to allow me to tighten up my joystick movements. I just wasn't noticing just how sloppy my stick movement was before. Hence all the missed WT's and a complete inability to hit the super motion. Both of those are coming out much better now. With about an hours practice, I am now able to land full air combos with relative consistancy, IAD more often than not while mid combo or during pressure strings, IAD 95% while standing still, running jump is amazing and easy to do, and I'm actually feeling a tempo for air combos. Obviously I can't improvise combos on the fly yet, and I definately can't gauge height and such very good, but it's progress that came faster than I can be grateful for.

Chip, I definately have an eager beaver problem when I play. All I want to do is get in and start pressuring or fish for a counter hit that gives me a combo. I have to recognize more that my opponent may be in control, and I need to just block more in general. Patience was never on my map as a virtue, but apparently something I'll have to learn. As far as you go, I think that you crutch on special moves, supers and big slow normals too often. Like josh said, try some pressure strings. You far underuse the small quick moves, other than spamming 2P that is. I think if you gattling a little more and stop focusing on things like attempting to ride the lighting 4-5 times in a row, you'll find you can create better pressure and land more combos than doing nothing but fireballs and greed severs.

Back to training mode. Talk to you all later or see you tomorrow.

p.s. I can't seem to get the BR to land after 5K, 5S, 2D. I can however land a 5K, BR(RC), j.S, (JC)j.S, j.H, VV+kickdown. Maybe this is because I'm in the corner? I think I tried the combo about 5 times midscreen though and still could get a hit off BR. Or maybe the character I was using as dummy was too heavy. I'll go try it a little more.

[phetus]

Yes. Robo Ky is too heavy to land that combo on. Lands on Sol perfectly fine.

[buhwhyen]

In response to Chip..actually I've been mildly curious about how comfortable you feel playing on a stick now (Sorry, I couldn't find a less gay way of phrasing that). I know from a personal stand point, the switch from d-pad to stick was unfriendly for me. My execution went way way down for a while because doing motions just felt awkward and uncomfortable. I found a lot of it had to do with how I held the stick (Okay...maturity ftw). Naturally since I have asian size hands, it'll be different to an extent, but if its still awkward with a joystick try holding it less with your fingers, more so with your palm. Its hella difficult to describe, but try resting the stick like on the area of your hand between your index finger and your thumb seen in my terrible mother fucking ascii picture.

-----index finger
/ -----
/ /
| |here
\ \
\ ------
-----thumb

Comfort is everything (fucking homo jokes everywhere). Before you really worry about how bad your execution is, try finding a comfortable way to orient your hands on the stick (Fucking hell. I'm sorry, I tried).

Once you get past that crap, I'd suggest just learning some simple gattle combos.
-5K, 5c.S, 5S(f) or 5HS, 2D.
-2P(1 or 2), 5S, 5HS, 2D
-2K, 2S, 2HS, 2D

Naturally if your sweep hits, throw out a charged stun edge. If its blocked you can either do nothing (sweep is quite safe on block), or throw out a slash or HS stun edge. But a reason why you aren't doing that much damage with Ky is because you throw out punches, gattle to slash then throw out a special move. The real problem with this is you don't really hit with any moves that DO a lot of damage. I know the feeling that you need to throw out stuff that comes out fast, but you should try getting used to gattling to harder hitting moves like HS and sweep. I did notice you were starting to run in with 6P more, which is good and you were hitting follow ups to your greed severs. But like Josh mentioned on Saturday and I think in his response post is you should go for more knockdowns with sweep. Ky's pressure really comes from wakeup games and forcing them to block a charged stun edge as they wake up.

A more situational comment about some of the games you played with Alvin: in some cases you got a knockdown on Al and followed with a charged stun edge on his wake up, but got uppercutted out of it. In some cases (like this one) you need to back dash before you throw out the charged stun edge to make it safer (read: not completely, but most of the time safe). And if you're going to be jumping back with stun edge, try mixing it up with the air charged stun edge. Its actually really really good, though it may not seem like it at first, but its hit box is huge making it a real pain in the ass to get around.

[buhwhyen]

Oh..and I ordered you a new stick and set of buttons Al (for your birthday), they just haven't come yet. Got you basically the same set up I have, but in black. Seimitsu stick + sanwa buttons. Overall...I still think square is better than circle, for restrictors. I just find, particularly when doing the overdrive motion, when I slow it down I hit it a lot more consistently. Since I know its more or less a universal problem among us, minus Jon, go to training mode and turn on key inputs and do the overdrive motion and look for what direction you're not hitting. I bet its probably the back direction, cause its really easy to miss, particularly with square restrictors.

[phetus]

Oh... didn't know you got me a stick too... Thanks a bunch mang. =)

[Duragar]

Thanks for the input, guys. In case my previous post didn't stress it enough (and my Characters to Play Post has misled you), I really would rather do well with Ky than any other character, so any advice to keep me on that path is much appreciated. One of the things I'm trying to balance out now is not pushing myself so far back that the ending sweep whiffs. Unless I really get close in on an opponent, I've found that Ky usually connects with 3-4 blocked gatling hits before he's hard pressed to connect with the sweep, unless he's already hitting. But with that said, I'm still trying to get myself to work with it. With the computer blocking turned to limited (and recovery front) I found the following to be generally pretty good (sorry if I'm not remembering the strings in the correct gatling order, or if the format for describing them isn't right):

6P 2S 5S 5HS 2D 236D
2K 5S 2S 2HS 2D 236D
j.S j.H land 2K 2S 2HS 2D

as well as some dust strings.
6P 2S 5S 5HS 5D > j.S j.S j.K j.S + (whatever)

I saw your suggestion for a good dust string, Josh. Definitely trying to get that in there, but I'm having a hard time getting the timing right to continue the string after the homing jump peters out. (see my questions on Jump Canceling down at the bottom.)

Anyways, I suppose the question I have as far as my combo strings go is whether or not I should throw in HS (or another heavy hitting attack) sooner rather than later in the string, or if I'm on the right track insofar as starting with quick attacks to get through defenses, then throwing in the more damaging attacks as I'm more sure they will hit.

I've tried opening with 6HS before, but I have my doubts about that landing in an actual fight, where my opponent will be moving and can see the wind-up on it. 6P has worked well so far, but I was wondering if there were any other reasonable openers aside from that on the ground that I can work with. j.K j.S j.HS seems to transition into a few moves on the ground, but timing the j.HS to hit instead of getting interrupted on my landing seems to be my biggest problem with it right now. Missing that just allows my opponent to recover and block the rest of the string, making the jump-in kind of DUR!

Jon will attest to the fact that I've become pretty good at FRC'ing Ky's throw, and following up with 5HS 623HS+HS, though I was hoping to expand that out further, or get more of a string going prior to the Vapor Thrust-Lightning Javelin. Oh, and apparently I can throw someone who's been hit by an FB charged stun edge. Whee! XD I'm also working on more consistently Air throwing - getting the distances down, the timing on jumps right. Ky seems to get really good pressure going with his throws, as well, so having that in my arsenal seems like a good idea to me. As another side note, I think this is the first time in any 2d fighter that I've practiced throwing at all, let alone as much as I have in recent days. I know getting my gatling combos more consistent is a high priority, but throwing is just so much fun, and it makes people so aggravated (myself included). ;D

Speaking of Vapor Thrusts... I've been trying to work on the loops for that, but it seems like there's a VERY specific time frame to loop it. I generally can consistently hit with it, but getting into the second string has pretty much eluded me. Almost every follow-up hit I've made has allowed for an instantaneous recovery, and thus the computer immediately blocks the second vapor thrust. You guys wouldn't happen to know a follow-up that doesn't allow that quick a recovery, would you?

I'm also trying to learn to tiger knee moves, particularly the charged stun edge and FB planets. I can do it a few times, but hardly consistently. Is there any more sure-fire way to get tiger knee moves off?

While I'm on Aerial moves, I'm also having a hard time visualizing the right time to jump cancel, particularly in dust combos. I usually get my four hits in (j.S j.S j.K j.S) and the combo just peters out. Jon recommended that I hold up on the homing jump for longer, then let it go after the third hit or so (sorry if I'm quoting you wrong, Jon), then hit up again right after the 4th hit, but, I've still had poor timing on getting anything after that. I think one time I got an additional j.P j.S in, but all the other times were full of fail. This question is more directed at Josh, because I know he's been pretty consistent with his Ky dust combos, but can you give me approximate time frames on stick position during that dust string? If I have a frame to work with, I definitely think I can start working that string into my arsenal.

Last but not least, I appreciate your thoughts and suggestions on stick control, Alvin. Indeed, transition from controller to stick has been making my execution eat shit. But I have two comments on that. First, It's occurred to me recently that my execution with the stick now... it about where my execution with the controller was before the switch. I was never particularly good at execution in the first place, so really, switching to stick now is probably better for me than if I had become really good at execution with a controller and THEN switching to stick. Second, I actually have a stick to practice with now (thanks again, Josh), as well as a stool that is at a good level for me when I'm on my couch. Thusly, I now have a fairly ideal set up to practice with (old spotty stick issues aside). Back to the subject at hand, I find that if anything, I'm over-exaggerating my stick motions, which I suppose is amazing for using an American stick, but when you think about it, it's not all that surprising. My hands are gargantuan (comparatively speaking) and fine motions for me are much wider than for other people, much less those with fast asian fingers. Also, I've found that it's not so much how I hold the stick, but the orientation of my hand relative to the stick that's been the factor in my control.

As an end note, I suppose all the psychology I was spouting about before boils down to being more comfortable with the character, and knowing more precisely what everything in my arsenal does. Guess I'll get cracking on that, then.

Oh... and I guess I'm gonna eat a whole lotta fag jokes for the stick control paragraph. You guys suck. Alfred. Fags.

[Pikachu]

Those strings into 2d are way too long. They'll hit if you're point blank, but you can't rely on that distancing. The other issue is that if you push them too far back, some characters can actually escape the 236d you cancel into after the sweep. Keep in mind there is a sweet spot for knockdown into 236d. What I try to do (and Justin did this as well) is to limit the gatling to 3-4 hits. Yes, some damage is lost on it, but that brings up the balance between pressure into bigger future openings vs. immediate guaranteed damage. Most of the time, you need to go for the former.

If you notice the strings I use for knockdown, they're usually something simple like k, c.s, 2d, or 2p, 2k, 2d. I think I can use more hs's in my strings... that's okay to do, but as a rule of thumb, don't go for 5 hits. I'll put an exception here that comboing into Stun Dipper is okay, if you KNOW it'll hit properly. Stun Dipper should never be thrown freely.

As for vapor thrust loops, keep in mind that you need to hit lightning javelin when the opponent is slightly higher than Ky, and not at equal height. If you see LJ hit at equal height, don't go for a followup... just prepare to do one of Ky's mixups after you land. (He has a LOT of good ones in this scenario). An easy way to get the followups is to learn how to utilize slash vapor thrusts (SVT). Go to dustloop.com for more info.

After FRC throw, there are tons and tons of things you can follow up with. This is an area I haven't bothered to fully explore because it would be time consuming and a lot of memorization. As I said, dustloop has all the info, but I can point you to a few generalized followups:

1. run up, c.s, hs, greed sever, c.s, 2hs, VT, LJ. This one is really easy and does decent damage, and works on everyone more or less. There may be a necessity to run a tiny bit forward after the GS.

2. 6p, c.s, 2hs, VT, LJ, (2p, c.s, 2hs, VT, LJ). The part in parentheses are not guaranteed and are character specific. There is always a method of getting a VT juggle on ALL characters, but the combos themselves are different. Since I play Ky casually, I have not bothered to look them all up, especially since it takes a good deal of memorization. Chip, however... you should do this!

3. 6p, c.s, 2hs, super jump cancel, sj.s, sj.hs, VT, LJ. Some characters can loop off of this... usually light ones if I remember correctly.

At the very least, if you practice these three followups, you'll find your combo skills getting to a better level, so it's at least good hand exercise.

For air dashing in, don't string j.k, j.s, j.hs. Omit the j.k. Learn the right height where both j.s, and j.hs hit, and where you can safely land 5k to 2d when you touch the ground... without getting thrown. This is one of the most important things to learn with Ky that is unobvious, but it'll teach you his advanced setups.

With regard to Dusting, mash out your first three j.s while holding up on the stick. Start mashing as soon as you leave the ground. As soon as the three j.s's hit, let go of the stick, input your j.p, j.s, j.p, j.s, tap up to jump cancel, j.s, j.hs, VT, LJ. The input off the jump cancel is right after the tap up. Do not hit them simultaneously... you will mess up. It's a clean rhythm, one input right after the other. Do not mash outside of the chase jump. You will not double tap your inputs during the air combo portion of your dust. Btw, Accent Core is very precise about differentiating between the fireball motion and uppercut motion. if you want uppercut, make sure you do 623 PRECISELY. If you find yourself getting air fireballs, you're inputting 6236.

[phetus]

I don't have much to say, as my knowledge with ky is fairly limited. I have a few comments though. For one, don't always end blocked strings in charged stun edge. Throwing out nromal stun edge helps mix up the timing for blocks, netting you extra damage on people who try to wiggle out of frame traps and block strings (like me), also if you get the frc timing down for stun edge, you'll be able to run up and do bad things to them while they're still blocking or eating a random stun edge.

The vapor thrust loops are rather dependant on where you hit them on the screen(like any other "loop"), as far as I've seen, only connects twice, and if they don't land near your feet, you have to run up and pick them up with 2P or something of the sort, before you start trying to juggle them again. Maybe this is something you're already doing, but I didn't see you mention it.

As far as TKing moves. Try to not be too eager for the move to come out, when you input 2369, wait till you see/hear/feel your character leave the ground and slap the button you need. It takes a little getting used to. Just don't rush the movements. You'll end up with a ground move or a super jump I find if I get too flustered.

As far as stick control goes, I don't know if this will help you, but discovering this helped me greatly yesterday, and I would like to share it with you. Be very deliberate about what you do with your stick. It's not an analog stick on a PS2 controller. You don't have to constantly have it held in a direction, or swing it around wildly. I find I have more time to do movements in this game than I felt before, and letting my stick return to neutral if there's no reason for me to be holding a direction, allowed me to input my next directions much smoother and accuratly.

Everyone: This paragraph is directed at all of you. I know how Brian uses his stick(ignore the fag jokes please), but my question is, how many of you have their left hand hurt the day after practicing? Obviously I'm mashing the stick a little too hard, and I can tone down on that, but I don't find I grab the stick in a single position like brian is saying he does. I use different points of my fingers to push the stick in different directions. This used to cause my hand to hurt a lot more, but really not as much of a problem now. In fact.... my hand doesn't really hurt today.. even though I was playing 2+ hours last night. I'm not sure if that will change when I start playing against tonight and the same points near bone are being pressured. I find I get minor bruising in the area of my pinky knuckle. I think I put a lot of pressure on my last knuckle when wriggling the stick around. How does everyone use their stick? And how does you hand fair after a nights practice?