12/11 Session

[phetus]

Where? We suck at planning. I know Brian's got finals. Is chip out of town yet? If it's just the small group again... we can just run it at mine again.

[Duragar]

I'm still here, and I'd like to play.

However, my place is out, because Craig's folks are going to be in town this evening. So.... if anyone else wants to put up their place, I'm all for it. If I'm prompted to, I could pick something up for dinner on my way to wherever we play from work.

[Pikachu]

Seems like the logical conclusion is to use your place, Al... again.

[phetus]

That's fine. I have a prior engagement at 6 (Bryce has a mando performance for his class). It shouldn't take long. I'll expect Josh and Jon at my house around 7ish? And then chip whenever work allows him. See you guys here soon.

[Duragar]

So, last night made something abundantly clear to me.

I need to stop eating FB moves.

EVERYONE rammed FB moves down my throat. I'd know when they're coming, I'd stop my offense to try and not eat them, And I'd just get owned anyways. Is there anything I can do on my own to practice not getting reamed by that? I know that practicing my own move timing and such will help mitigate leaving myself open to that, but is there anything else I can do aside from coming to practice with you guys and (eventually) not getting bashrammed every time a ching and white spark goes off?

Also... I feel kinda gimpy asking this, but if you try to faultless without tension, do you throw out a normal instead, or will you still block normally? I think that a lot of the time when I twich, I'm either trying to faultless and a punch/kick comes out instead, or it's an indication that I'm tired and I'm reaching the limits of what I can do for that practice session. If trying to faultless without tension is a bad idea, then I really need to get that ingrained as well.

EDIT: Also... I think I've finally attuned to a stick type. I found myself throwing moves out a hell of a lot more consistently on Josh's stick than Alvin's. Looks like I need to shell out the money for my own decent stick now. -_-;;;

[Pikachu]

Faultlessing (yes, I'm making this a word!) without Tension = lose.

Not eating certain FB moves isn't something you can do in practice mode. You have to realize that the FBs that are getting spammed tend to be fast moves, done at a time when we think the opponent will twitch. The way you find these situations is through manipulation of your opponent's game knowledge (varied on the level you think they're at) and trying to make these situations happen in a way that minimizes risk for yourself (a concept I usually throw out the window). Experience and a lot of watching videos helps.

Granted, I'll just spam it because it's so juvenile. However, if I'm playing seriously, I'll be throwing them out with good reason. My rationale on these moves is that I either want to remind the opponent that they need to stay blocking, so I can take advantage of their fear for a future setup, OR outright punish them for twitching at an inappropriate time. Either way, I want the momentum to swing in my favor and make things abundantly clear who has control of the match at that given moment.

Another thing to be aware of is that if you feel that you see the move coming, but ate it anyway, it can actually be one of three possibilities. I'm basing this theory off my own knowledge in psych, so it's an educated guess, but extrapolated from many scenarios I've seen and reactions from a lot of players. (As a warning, this deviates a bit from the FB topic, but if you want insight on human player reactions, read on. It's somewhat relevant, but it'll be long.).

1. You can see the move coming, but you're fucked anyway

Eddie unblockables, psychic gut feelings you don't act on, and Super Turbo throws, Gief/T.Hawk ticks into 720s are the prime examples of this. They're things that are just impossible to deal with 100% of the time, because you're human. One frame throw super = LOL. There is no shame in getting smacked by this shit.

2. You can see the move coming, you try to react to it, you're sure you reacted correctly, but ate it anyway

Ticks into command grabs that are successful, quick overheads (Testament's 2p, 6p gatling, for instance), avoiding spaztastic hits, Guilty Gear throws in general, good Eddies... most things fall into this category. These are aggravating to get hit by, because a lot of these setups are vulnerable, but still need reaction time to successfully counter. If your brain registers your need to counter an incoming attempt just a few frames afterward, and you react accordingly, you may have reacted "properly", but just too late.

If you break down tick command throw setups in terms of frame data, it can become apparent why it's hard to cope with. Say Eddie is point blank in Chipp's face and throws out a 5p. Let us assume both players are capable of reacting down to the frame. Eddie's 5p is at -1, and Damned Fang, Eddie's command grab, has a startup of 6 frames (which is demented). This gives Chipp a window of 7 frames to react (-1 disadvantage from Eddie, 6 frame startup for throw... which gives Chipp's 2p (4 frame startup) a chance to stuff the attempt. You can, at worst, react 3 frames late and be able to hit Eddie out of the attempt.

The thing is, Guilty Gear runs at 60 frames per second. The human eye usually catches 30 frames per second. You are not even visually processing every frame that's being output from the screen, so your eyes can mechanically miss a portion of your cue to counter a setup. On the other hand, you eye might happen to catch an earlier portion of the frames that might tip you off for the attempt, which you may or may not successfully counter. However, if we throw in reaction time as well, we can see how visual processing + reaction time (which I lump together with reacting to information and physically hitting an input) can cause one to lag behind just enough to be aware of what's coming, but still eat feces.

3. You ate the move. Period. You were served.

You just got played at the right time. Order Sol paused at the right time and predicted that you wanted to poke back, or escape, or whatever... and threw Fafnir. And you ate it. Period. It happens. Sol drops a gatling, runs back in, starts another. You hear the game say, "Counter!". You ate it. Ky does 6hs, and gatles into another poke. Sir N00blet tries to poke between the 6hs and the gatling afterwards and eats counter hit. I think ya'll get it now.

The fine line between #2 and #3 is that #2 comes from slow reaction, and #3 is where a person gets played and owned, either through a good setup, or a lack of game knowledge. If #3 happens to you, it's just natural. Remember the scenario, and adapt to the mind game accordingly. Just make sure you don't fall into #3 because of a lack of game knowledge.

The bottom line after all these paragraphs is that if anyone is eating something, they need to assess whether #2 is happening or if #3 is happening.

EDIT (accidentally posted before I was done) - If you find yourself eating something a LOT, it is usually #3. It'll feel like you see it coming, but the fact of the matter is that if you process a situation just several frames too late, you're actually seeing something in retrospect. The way you combat this is just through a lot of playing.

[Duragar]

And Josh demonstrates why he's the Psych Major. XD

Well crap... if Faultlessing (continuing the trend) fails when you have no tension, that may very well be a stumbling block I was hitting that I didn't even know about, now that I think about it. I think that whenever I see myself getting thwacked when I think I'm faultlessing, my mind assumes that I just did the input wrong, and tries again... only to get counter hit again because I still have no tension. Well.... Gonna have to take that little lesson to heart, or I shall get my shit wrecked any time I have no tension.

And.... Blah. I'm probably falling more into the #3 category, the "Ah, I should've known" school of seeing stuff coming. I need more practice time with Ky so that I know my limits on where and when to strike. I also need to get into my head on where an when to block versus where and when to FD, especially when Josh and Brian (and occasionaly Jon) are being juvenile with FB moves. I think #2 happens every so often, and that's a function of honing my relfexes. My reaction time overall isn't bad, but I need to get used to the game more to fully utilize it.

[Pikachu]

You really should selectively Faultless as well. It's pretty rare to actually have zero tension for it, because there are so many small actions you can take to maintain tension... especially with Ky.

In any case, you should also ask yourself why you even want to Faultless. Preventing chip damage? Sure.. against supers or when you're at a sliver of life. That's situational. Usually, you'll have the tension to at least start the FD, and you might die from chip damage in that case because blocking supers drains hella tension.

Otherwise, you want to manipulate the range that the opponent is being pushed back using Faultless Defense. It's sometimes successful, and sometimes not. Against Eddie, using FD is fairly silly because little Eddie covers any gaps that can be created. Dizzy doesn't really care too much if she keeps the gatlings short and she has fish out. Potemkin will laugh at you if you FD too much, because you'll be a little more vulnerable to Slide Head, and you telegraph you own defensive mindset into getting Pot Bustered. (your blockstun during FD is increased by one frame). FD works against Ky if he is using long, long gatlings covered by frame advantage abuse, which I do. It works against Chipp as well for this same reason, and has limited use against Baiken to push her a little out of TK Yousanzen range. At the right times, it should be able to push Jam out of the point blank range she likes.

However, it's not a guaranteed answer, because a player can adjust their offense to FD and abuse you right back. What this means is that you need to be very deliberate about why and when you FD. If you see a certain trend in offense and know FD can throw a slight wrench in it, it may be enough to cause an overzealous opponent to overcommit himself. At worst, you create some space for yourself to poke back. No matter what, keep in mind that FD can create extra space for yourself. You should figure out what to do with it.