11/06 Session

[Duragar]

Okay. I'll be the first to say that this session was probably the crappiest I've played in a while. Occasional shining moments aside, I really ate a lot of shit - I kept trying to go for openings where there were none, I let openings go by, I switched out excessive greed sever for entirely too much charged stun edge, and I couldn't even get dashes going. But perhaps the worst part of it is that I gained nothing from that experience, despite being on deck the entire time I was there. So... while a good portion of this may be attributed to noobliness on my part, there are some key factors I didn't directly have control over tonight that I believe contributed to the complete uselessness of that session for me.

1) Comfort level outside the game. This includes posture, where the stick is relative to me, etc. I'm entirely too used to being on a nice couch, with a stool at a good level for me, on a bulky stick. You guys may be able to sit on the ground and play for hours on end... I cannot for much more than even an hour. Furthermore, Until I'm completely used to being on stick, I'm gonna be picky about the level the stick is at. Having the stick sitting on my lap is very uncomfortable for my legs, not having a support for my back is going to make my back hurt afterwards for about twice as long as we sit and play. Much of my slip ups and irritation stemmed from the fact that I was uncomfortable where I was sitting, and knowing from experience, was going to be uncomfortable anywhere else. So... the only way I see getting around this is, well, me hosting the game sessions. Josh has good furniture, but family will probably want the TV at the hours we start. The Brothers NG have a suitable TV, but again, we're sitting on the floor. My place would be good, were it not for the fact that both Craig and I (well, not so much Craig at the moment, since he has a guild to talk all night to again) go to bed early, and that would cut short your game sessions if you want to go later. All that said, the short end of it is that we need a more comfortable set up, or things will rapidly deteriorate on my end.

2) Start time. I hate to impose my preferences on you guys, but if I'm gonna get anywhere, I need to start (and unfortunately, end) early. I really don't retain information if I'm tired, and I'll start just throwing stupid shit out because I'm too fatigued to keep myself organized enough to get anywhere. Most of those Charged stun edges I threw out were meant to be HS stun edges, t.k. stun edges, or Force Breaks, but I was simply too damn lazy and uncoordinated to get them out properly. I ate a shit ton of Alvin's jump-ins because I couldn't get a damn uppercut motion out, and I would just end up sticking my arms out for Sol to slash. IF we go out to eat again, we need to make it someplace faster... but I would advocate that we eat before we start for my sake. From now on, I would recommend you guys go ahead and grab dinner without me, and I'll grab something on my way there.

Okay... Those are my initial thoughts on the matter... I'll actually try to go into what I was doing last night when I'm not fucking tired. I just wanted to get this off my chest, because thinking about it was driving me crazy on the drive home. I don't want it to sound like I'm making excuses - nothing can beat solid, consistent practice, but the little things do add up. Peace.

[phetus]

Hey man, I know exactly what you mean. I personally can't play on my lap either. I drop a lot more motions and combos when I do. Sitting on the ground is not particularly comfortable and if I stay on the stick for a while (when I practice... because I don't go on win streaks yet) my back kills me when I get up. You're quite a bit bigger than me, and I can 100% see why it'd be horribly uncomfortable to sit on the ground for you. While I understand, I have absolutely no solutions for you. I personally would love a comfortable set up to play on, but it's not really my place to shift furniture around or introduce strange pieces of furniture to the house. I will think about what I can do about this situation. My room is a bit cramped for a set up, but that is really the only solid option for my place I think. Most of the rooms in my house with a TV are designed to sit and watch TV, not play games with a joystick or large controller in front of you. Once again, I'll look into it.

As far as start time goes, I couldn't agree with you more. I didn't want to leave you out for dinner, but those really are your best hours to play; right when you get there. From now on, if you're going to arrive late, we'll do just what you said. We'll eat first. In fact, I'd go so far as to say, maybe we shouldn't go out and eat. As much as I love eating with you guys and having tons of funny/intriguing/thought provoking conversation, the purpose of us getting together in the middle of the week after work/school/whatever, is to play. We should thinking about cooking or getting take out, eating in someway would give us more time to play, and help us not go too late while actually getting something to done.

[phetus]

I would also like to mention that, in addition to constructive critism, positive reinforcement would be a good addition to our posts. We have a difficult time criticising each other because we're friends, but slicing up a bit of compliments to add to the dish might help us spit out some of the negatives. Besides, helping people understand what they're doing right, is also helpful.

[Duragar]

Well... given the chance to sleep on it, I thought of a solution to problem #1 - Lawn chairs!

Seriously though, I could simply buy a lawn chair and portable stool/stand/whatever, and bring that with me to our gaming location for the week (Hell, on the weekends, too). They're generally light-weight as they were meant for camping trips, and if I'm just bringing them in and out of the house, They (hopefully) shouldn't be too intrusive. The only factor to really think about is making sure that the legs of the thing don't damage the nice floors of your homes, since most of them are meant for outdoor stability.

BYOC ftw! Yay for communist inefficiency! ;D

[phetus]

By the way, I double checked CL SW loops damage with and without 2H. At least in the case of 2 clean hits off a WT, the 2H's add a significant amount of damage. This may change with 4 CL SW's, or off less prorated launchers, but for now, I will be keeping them in.

[Pikachu]

I totally understand the comfort level issue. Playing on the floor used to ruin me completely. It still messes with me on occasion for fireball motions of all things, but at least I can play. I would agree with what you are thinking of, Chip... some sort of portable chair and an object to raise the stick to a comfortable playing height. On the other hand, (and this can be done in the long run) you ought to learn to play within a reasonable range of joystick heights. This will be good in case you find yourself at different arcades and homes. How you do it is up to you.

Man, if we had an arcade cab... nothing beats bar stool + cab.

My house has support in terms of furniture, but not in terms of a TV. I was really psyched to have a new TV at first, but I could barely play Guitar Hero on it. Just for giggles, I decided to see how bad GG was on it. I could notice hella lag on Sol's KICK. Unfortunately, this means that I can't really host much. I'll make it up to ya'll with beers or something. (Beer + bar stool + cab > bar stool + cab)

I disagree with you wholeheartedly that you played the crappiest in a while, Chip. You should NEVER gauge your progress on wins and losses alone. This is a massive mental block I used to go through and it can kill your drive to work harder at the game. You tried new shit and it didn't all work out. So what? Part of the learning curve involves eating a lot of hits before you know where and when to place your moves. Look at all the CH j.hs I eat from Brian or the j.2s's I eat from Jon still. That's just a part of experimenting. You should understand what I mean when I say that science ain't for pussies. At some point, however, it's okay to block. Block is good and shit. You do not need to uppercut anything and everything (and keep in mind Ky's uppercut is not great).

What I saw last night was not a streak of wins from you, but a willingness to try new things and step out of your own comfort zone. That is progress. You did a lot more throws than before. That's good too. You FRC'd quite a few of them. That's even better! You saw scenarios where you know you have problems. Okay, so you don't have the answers to all those new situations yet.. but the fact that you even see those situations at all is more progress than you can imagine. The game is not just execution. You also have to learn how to execute plans and scenarios in your mind. Many people will play a fighter never knowing that this aspect of the game even exists.

Think of each game as an experience point. You still have to accumulate a certain amount before you actually see tangible returns... but even if you haven't gotten those returns, it doesn't mean you made no progress.

Al, you're right about getting take-out. That's just a good way to make sure we get more playing done.

[buhwhyen]

The easier solution to the stick height problem is to get a stand or something similar to place the stick on, rather than getting a chair and tableish set up. Personally, I still have issues playing on the floor, but I'm forcing myself to adjust because as Josh has said in the not so recent past, EVO has no tables. Most people end up playing on the floor, maybe on a chair. On that note, I've been toying with the idea of just putting together a small stand for my HRAP that would just be like wide/long enough to fit my HRAP on it and about 4-6 inches tall to adjust the height of my stick, but the reason I've kind of been putting that off is I really don't see myself wanting to carry it around everywhere and really, its a crutch that I can do without.

Sadly, in the end you really need to just learn to sit on the floor, I don't think we'll have much of any success setting up 1 TV/1 projector or other TV with enough furniture for us all. And you might be saying at this point, well Brian, Jon, and Josh are comfortable without it, but if we say have a couch for 2 people, and the other 2 sit on the floor (assuming we figure out how to get 2 games running at once) then we limit our match ups. If/when we play at my house, there won't be enough space for a tv/projector set up that allows for any sort of seating other than the floor because we'd have to set up on 2 adjacent walls(one where the TV is now, and the wall with the couch is the only wall suitable for a projector) and I don't see any real way we could set up chairs or whatnot at any place other than Chip/Craig's due to the space around where the TV's are set up. Actually..we could drag my TV out into the living room, but seating is still an issue and my dad tends to sleep now around 10-11 at night. Though, Josh? or someone brought up the point that we need another stick for 2 game set ups, so I ordered a used PS pad and I'll probably fix up my shelf stick for either next week or the week after's play session, depending on when it comes.

And on the topic of dinner..Honestly, we should not eat until we've played for an hour or 2. And frankly..as good of an idea getting take out or eating before we start is, playing straight for 4-5 hours rarely nets you positive results in the end. Particularly if we get 2 games running at the same time. Why? because, though I'm not sure if you've realized this yourselves yet, you just get sloppy if you don't get kicked off the fuckin' machine for more than 5 seconds, or in the case of you never leaving the machine for half an hour or more. And really, if, win or lose, you don't leave the machine, you, not only, don't have time to think about what you should be doing in some situations, you end up doing a lot of stupid shit that you know damn well you should not be doing, but do anyways for whatever reason. I.E. uppercutting every time on wake up, going for excessive run up uppercuts, trying to go for obnoxious dash ins, etc. I notice it a lot in my own playing. You start doing things less because of anticipation/fishing for a CH or something and more cause you either run out of ideas or just fail whatever combos too much and give up on them. And the more I do it myself, the more I notice other people doing it.

It all comes down to after a while you just need to step back from the game, or anything really, and just take a break. Theres only so much good that can come out of practicing, working, studying, etc without breaks. Saying we should go non stop from like 6 or 7 till 12 is dumb. Just dumb. I do not want to see myself go back into dumb shit habits that I've been finding myself getting into after playing too much without breaks in a night. And I'm pretty sure I'm not alone wanting to see some progress in my game play without resorting to doing only stupid shit to land random damage.

[Pikachu]

I see where you are coming from, since I do the same thing, and in a much shorter period of time. Sometimes I will still go on a tear, and I'll experience a brain fart that turns into inexcusable play. What I'd suggest is a cap on winning streaks (maybe at five?). This isn't for anyone's ego, but it's also kinda silly that the person who wins is getting more play time. I don't want to draw comparisons to the arcade, though... the mentality of playing in a public setting is entirely different.

At the same time, learning how to be creative over a longer period of time is a necessary skill in the long run. It's a little less relevant to us right now, but I don't want to say that we'll never reach that level either. For now, my suggestion stands as a kind of devil's advocate solution.

I don't believe the floor is unavoidable. There's always room for a creative solution. I choose to learn how to play on the floor, because the floor is always freaking there. Otherwise, go for a chair (sit) + chair (makeshift table) setup. If we can think of/purchase portable furniture that's lightweight, portable, and durable, there's not reason to not just leave that shit in the trunk of your car like a 12 inch veined double dong.

If at the end, all else fails, I'll check the schedule of classes at Legend. Classes might last till like, 7:30, though... so I dunno if it'll truly work out in terms of timeframe and what not. There is, however, a fuckton of furniture, tables, and walls for projectors to work on.

How about some dinner ideas? The take-out idea is good. We can just take a self-imposed dinner break if need be. Off the top of my head, here are some easy ideas outside of McDonald's, Pizza, and KFC, etc. (though we should get KFC and watermelon for Chip at some point... OMFG don't kill me):

Soups at Safeway
Takeout at Chef Wong
Pho (King)
Hamburger Helper + Salad
Spaghetti and MEAT sauce (no homo)**

We have this board, so we can talk about dinner plans a week ahead. Even we can plan at this speed. Pot luck, designated cook, whatever. I'll volunteer if need be. It'll be ghetto and simple, but certainly better than Booger King.

**Note - this is a term I'm ripping straight from SRK, and it implies exactly what it means... NO HOMO. This is a safe way to dodge all the gay implications of sticks, shafts, balls, and expressions of platonic love towards others. No homo.

[phetus]

There have been long term plans, when I move out, I will build a cab for console play. However, this will still be months from now. I think this will just be our own crutch we'll hav\ve to work with. All of the above are valid. Eventually I'll probably play on the floor too, but I don't see why you have to be uncomfortable while putting in hours of practice. I personally believe that when we reach a level of play that is comfortable for us to compete in, playing with minor variations to the height in our stick, will not be a large issue. It really will be a bigger challenge to get our execution up to par than to translate it to different stick height. Personal belief.

[buhwhyen]

Actually the intent of my first paragraph was to say if you really need to mod height on your stick, use some sort of small platform, opposed to a chair/table or whatever. I just don't want to develop a personal reliance on something in order to play somewhere/not be able to play without a stand or whatever. Either is fine, but I'd rather not see other people struggle with the height issue like I did when I switched from my old shelf stick to my HRAP. That was a hella unfriendly transition height wise that took me literally months to get over. Well, assuming you intend on learning how to play on the floor, but to each his own, I guess.

[Duragar]

admin said:

(though we should get KFC and watermelon for Chip at some point... OMFG don't kill me):

Dude... KFC and watermelon would rule! I'd totally be up for that. I for one endorse and encourage this train of thought. Make sure you get grape soda while you're at it. Welch's is okay... Stewart's is good... but I wish I could remember the brand name my dad got one time. It's really rare, but it's hella good. Even you yellow guys would turn black drinking it! ;D

Okay... got that out of my system. Just here to say real quick that I agree with Alvin on the stick height issue. I fully understand that I'm not gonna have my way all the time with regard to stick height and that I need to learn to play at varying levels. However, I really need to get my execution down first, and the less other shit I have to worry about during the interim, the better.

One last thing... I totally agree with Brian's synopsis on breaking up practice sessions. Much as I am apprehensive about eating late, I agree that the frequency of doing stupid shit increases substantially as time on the stick without pause increases. So breaking up the session with food breaks = win.

[phetus]

I am 100% with you on that Brian, but Josh also has a point. Being stuck on the stick 10 games is a mind drain. While we do have to work on mental stamina at some point, this is not the time for us to worry about that. We should pick up Josh's suggestion and keep win streaks to 5 wins during our practices. At the 5th win, we should have both players rotate off, thus getting a clean wipe and not starting the game after having just watched the loser's Sol played. It'd be a nice mental wipe.

I.
Love.
KFC.

That said, finger food, especially greasy food like friend chicken, is a horrible combination with playing on other peoples sticks. Obviously, soap and water is a good thing, but I feel like even after I wash my hands, it lingers. In respect for other peoples property, I say we keep KFC off our menu list. That and I just ate a bucket of it last night on an empty stomach... and I farted all night. A most unwelcome distraction for my opponents. Not that it'll help me net win streaks. Just other types of streaks.

[phetus]

This is more like an after session question. Like I said, I popped into training mode after this last session to test the damage of the SW loops with and without 2H. Doing this, I realized just how badly WT prorates. While I can't complain about free damage, SW loops do so much more damage of standard launchers. I haven't practiced since, but I wanted an opinion. Should I just try for air combos, since I am getting more comfortable with them and they are more universally transferable(the skill of being able to), or should I just start trying for SW loops off any decent launcher? They will take a lot of practice, but I'm not sure whether I should just do it, since it nets me so much damage...

Additionally, weekly is good, but I want MORE. I don't want a serious, long session, but if anyone is interested in an hour of one on one face time in the game, and then grabbing dinner or something, I'd love to do that somewhere later in the week after Tuesday. It won't be a permanent commitment or a set time or day, I'm just saying, if you get out of work/school and wanna chill for a bit, gimme a call. I need a lot of work, and I'm dedicated to getting to Brian/Chan's level and beyond. So... come kick Sol around.

[Pikachu]

WT prorates 50%. I'm pretty sure all throws, command or normal, prorate 50%... for good reason. Of course, Sol does need to make his WT damage go as far as possible, because sometimes those counterhits just don't come along for you. At the same time, you need more setups than tick, WT, because the damage is good and free, but not game-winning. For Sol to shine, you've got to be able to hit either an air combo or SW loop off as much random shit as possible. This is harder to do than dust loops were, of course, but it's still very possible.

Really, though, if the SW loop doesn't come, just do a combo. It doesn't even have to be in the air... just hit a combo. Anything that knocks down and allows you to continue into pressure. What takes practice and experimentation is knowing how to do this without the obvious launchers, like Fafnir, Bringer and Gland Viper. Improvising off gatlings into a combo, knowing how to react between a blocked FRC Gunflame versus one that hits, and timely RC's off your specials are all things you have got to work on. Otherwise, you're relying on high-risk options for moderate returns, and while there's a time and place for everything, Sol is only fearsome when even his low-risk options turn into big damage. Combine this with some decent slash and gunflame zoning and it's even better.

[buhwhyen]

Actually, Wild Throw FORCE prorates to 55%(not that force prorating matters for command throws, but whatever). And don't worry about the prorating, a surprising number of Sol moves prorate, theres a list somewhere on Dustloop. Hell, sidewinder FORCE prorates to 70%, but who gives a fuck? You have to realize the damage off of sidewinder is based on the number of clean hits you land in a combo, which increases substantially for every subsequent clean hit. The only launcher I can think of (not CH) that doesn't prorate is FRC gun flame.