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Post by Pikachu on Jan 10, 2011 17:25:15 GMT -5
Amumu, Anivia, Fiddledicks, Gangplank, Kog'Maw, Morgana, Nunu, Shen, Tristana (can we assume we all own her?), Veigar, Vlad
Am considering Cho'Gath atm.
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Post by Duragar on Jan 12, 2011 16:22:40 GMT -5
Hmm... can't check while I'm at work, but Let's see what I remember...
On my main account, I have: Garen Master Yi Ashe Sivir Kayle <7k IP>
On my alt with the collector's edition, I have: Alister Amumu Annie Ashe Cho'Gath Kayle Morganna Nunu Rammus Ryze Sion (?) Sivir Soraka Teemo Tristana Tyrndamere Viegar Warwick 1380 RP (roughly 2 additional champions)
I know there's champions I'm missing, but that's probably the main list of champions I'd consider using.
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Post by buhwhyen on Jan 14, 2011 18:26:17 GMT -5
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Post by Duragar on Jan 16, 2011 3:59:49 GMT -5
Derp.
This is the full list of champs I have on my Collector's Edition alt: Alistar Amumu Annie Cho'Gath Evelyn Fiddlesticks Janna Kayle Malphite Morgana Nassus Rammus Ryze Sivir Teemo Tristana Tyrndamere Viegar Warwick Zilean
Still need to spend my RP and get champs... thinking about picking up Caitlyn... gonna try her on her free week.
... still need to spend IP on my main too. >_<;
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Post by Pikachu on Jan 17, 2011 17:42:51 GMT -5
Since you're close to 20, you'll want to invest the IP in runes. They're a significant investment, but you won't regret it.
I'm also curious: which alt is the one with the collector's edition?
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Post by buhwhyen on Jan 17, 2011 20:52:20 GMT -5
Try and pick which characters you like playing as well. Since most of us have quite a few characters, but don't play them all, it'll be useful to know which ones you actually know how to/want to play.
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Post by buhwhyen on Jan 18, 2011 4:23:50 GMT -5
Some random thoughts: -Try to finish a rune page for a character. Doesn't matter which character it's for really, just try to get a completed rune page so you're not always half gimped. -Work on last hitting in lanes, in general I always have way way way more creep kills throughout the game (not only cause I'm in a solo lane). Gotta get money, get paid. -Manage your mana when in lane. You should be able to stay above 50% mana most of the time (some characters have an easier time than others, but no mana = you can't do shit, and they know you can't do shit). For the most part you should be able to last hit with just your auto attack. Depending on who you lane against/with this can be difficult, but its really how you should be last hitting. So if you aren't mostly last hitting with auto-attacks, this should be your goal (unless you play Annie/Veigar). It's much less important to constantly harass with skills early on because you don't have the mana pool or regen to burn through, and for the most part you won't get kills unless your opponents are retarded. Most of the time it's better to save your mana till you see the enemy champs at 50, 60, 70% health before you try to go for a kill. But if they get that low and you have no mana, then you get no kills. -Push minion lines less (don't push your lane). When I say last hit, I really mean ONLY last hit. You don't, DO NOT, want to auto-attack or use skills on the minions unless you're going to kill them for cash with that one attack/ability. This will cause you to push towards the enemy tower. The farther you push towards their tower the less safe you are. -Tower dive less. Frankly you guys dive way too much and end up dying most of the time you attempt it. Try playing safer, don't get so wide eyed for kills that you end up dying too (or even worse, you fail to get a kill and just die. Yes I've seen this happen way too often). This goes hand in hand with the previous point, if you don't push the minion line towards their tower, you have more space to work with if you get a chance to gank. You just have more space to chase them and also conversely less distance to run to the safety of your own tower if they try to gank you. -Don't cast a spell till you're actually in range to cast it. It's really tempting cast a spell as you're running up to, but not quite at a battle, but just wait till you get there otherwise you end up missing or land a subpar ult/stun/aoe. -When going for ganks in other people's lanes. Do not, DO NOT run straight at the enemy champion you're trying to gank. Cut off their escape route and sandwich (yes homo) them between yourself and whoever is in that lane. Also, for Warwick specifically don't start with your ult unless you really need it to catch up with them. When you're running in to initiate and if you first run between the enemy champ and their turret, you can save your ult for when they pop flash/ghost/whatever escape mechanism they have and you get more kills. Sometimes you won't even need to burn your ult to get kills (kthx red buff). Also ping when you're approaching so whoever is in that lane knows to get ready for a gank. Some useful guides if you're too lazy to look for them. Vladleaguecraft.com/strategies/guide/6766-vladimir-wants-you-to-make-a-donation.xhtmlleaguecraft.com/strategies/guide/12384-vladimir-the-solo-queue-reaper.xhtmlWarwickleaguecraft.com/strategies/guide/3252-one-simple-guide-for-warwick.xhtmlleaguecraft.com/strategies/guide/8229-in-depth-jungler-warwick-guide.xhtml(second recommends boots of mobility, not sure if I'm completely convinced this is a good idea, but it might work) Garenleaguecraft.com/strategies/guide/6894-garen-cry-me-an-ocean.xhtmlTeemoleaguecraft.com/strategies/guide/11940-ap-teemo-advanced-player-guide-detailed.xhtmlMalphiteleaguecraft.com/strategies/guide/866-malphite-the-immovable-monolith.xhtml
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Post by dyuman on Jan 18, 2011 14:22:18 GMT -5
Huh... I entirely didn't realize WW speed buff aided allies 40% at cap. I should really be popping that more when we are dancing at mid to see who makes the mistake to help Ashe or other ranged carries.
I like the suggestion of opening with hungering strikes on a gank, then following with duress and another strike after.
I'll make sure to run to cut off than run at them directly.
I do agree with the boots of mobility is for faster map travel and initiation on ganks, and initiating ganks. I do see a lot of value in clense now as well since stun just rapes WW. Will give Clense + Ghost a try.
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Post by Duragar on Jan 18, 2011 15:40:54 GMT -5
So, on my main account (SirGraves) I'll obviously use Garen or Master Yi (will probably pick up Teemo on this account as well once I've completed a rune sheet). I'll go ahead and save my IP for when I hit 20 (thought it was 21?), and just binge on runes when the tier 3 stuff unlocks.
On my collector's edition alt account (SirDuragar), out of the champs I have unlocked, I'm most likely to play Teemo, Tryndamere and Master Yi (though I've been having a lot of trouble on timing Trynd's ult and generally not-dying).
I'd read that particular Garen guide before, and it's the one I generally follow. I had the core build and most of the general items down, but I had forgotten about the situational items (mostly because the game ends before I can build them). Also, as you mentioned before, I really need to work on last hitting with Garen so that I have the money to get my equipment (and not die early on so I don't miss farming opportunities).
As for Teemo... I'm not as certain that the AP build is for me, but there are some very valid reasonings there that I'll take into consideration. I don't like not including Nashor's Tooth in the build, but then again his build calls for mana regen and CDR runes, so it's probably a factor of needing different items based on my lack of runes on that account. Either way, most people underestimate the damage mitigation teemo has (yay blind) and mushrooms go a long way, so for the moment I can live without the runes.
Another thing that gets me killed way too much: Running in early/late in team fights. I forget that Garen isn't a pure tank, and will still get bursted down if he's the only target in there. Also, because my build usually doesn't have merc treads, stuns and non-snare debuffs will jack my shit up. I suppose I should be announcing my intent earlier, but then I'll be contributing a lot of useless chatter as I keep going "go now? go now? now? now?"
I also need to get my champion control... under control, for lack of a better way to put it. Setting aside the occasional lag spikes at bad times, sometimes I'll set long distance paths for myself on the way to a hot spot and not pay attention to where I'm actually moving through, and that's gotten me killed on at least one occasion. I'll look to check other parts of the map while I'm on the move, and not realize I'm getting hit by minions/creeps/tower/random solo champs/etc. and die/have to recall because of it. Being easily distracted is one of my pitfalls in a lot of games. >_<;
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Post by Pikachu on Jan 18, 2011 21:43:16 GMT -5
Can't speak for Teemo since I have no idea wtf to do with him besides poop shrooms everywhere.
On the other hand, I wouldn't be disturbed by chatter in the short term, or even talking later on. Simply assuming that 5 people will be perfectly in sync with each others' thoughts, regardless of how long they've known each other, is just silly in a team game. I mean, if at work, which unfolds much less quickly, people still need to talk through some basic things to keep on the same page, it just makes sense to me if someone just pops a question here and there (i.e. "Do we keep faffing around at mid, or just say fuck this and go to another lane?"). Even if you ask just once whether we should engage, it prompts the person who ought to be initiating whether it's a good idea to do so at the moment, or to split off and refocus elsewhere.
To put myself under a microscope, however, I understand if people might have a hesitation to ask questions at the risk of sounding dumb or getting yelled at for not knowing. I'm guilty of both and it's just not helpful for facilitating a faster learning curve. At least I can try my best to tone down the sarcasm or condescension during heated moments.
It's a balance between asking a few dumb questions vs. asking too many. There is a line, but accepting a few basic ones is just a necessary evil. I'm sure we can find that. Some champions are still a mystery for me on a level for basic functions, and I have to ask WTF something is pretty often. Yeah, I can go RTFM, but that's not a useful thing to tell someone to do in the middle of a match. (If anything, some of the stuff that sticks the best is learning in the moment.)
That said, RTFM as much as possible =)
I also empathize with getting distracted or not being able to immediately process what is going on. It happens when I have to learn something explicitly rather than implicitly, which due to time crunch, is how I pick this game up (as well as playing tired, which happens often nowadays). The opposite is when some people learn when they're in the middle of a lot of shit, and just have a gut feeling. What helps is just to be aware that this is your learning style and then feeding into it. If everything just looks distracting, then your brain hasn't figured out what to filter and what to hone in on because you're also trying to move your character and remember your powers. For me, watching first-person videos of pros helped a lot. Watching how often they're last hitting, what they criticize, what they build, and just observing their behavior set a lot of benchmarks. Number of minion kills is an easy one to point out... they get more money and therefore roll people from sheer item advantage. They spend less time deciding what to do, and more time doing something useful for their character. It's easier to pay attention to the "how" and the "what" when you're not under the burden of playing the game.
And in the midst of all that chaos, we just try to talk to one another. I think we've been better about this in recent games and it's been helpful for me. I'll sometimes miss something going on because it's not on my screen, someone redirects me, and I resync with the team.
And +1 on Brian's thing on runes. It helps so much.
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Post by Duragar on Jan 19, 2011 13:13:09 GMT -5
Time that Riot Games brought down the servers last night for maintenance: 8:00pm-11:00pm
Time I finished dinner last night: 7:58pm
God damn it. That wrecked my whole evening. >_<;
PS - I'm completely out of practice in L4D versus mode. That, or the only people who play anymore are 1000+ hours played in the game.
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Post by Duragar on Jan 28, 2011 5:07:34 GMT -5
Summoner Level 20 Get!
Just blew 12k IP on runes. xD
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Post by buhwhyen on Feb 1, 2011 15:56:38 GMT -5
So I didn't expect the patch to be this lame. They increased the cost of all doran's items to 475g and gave them slight (pointless) buffs. This really sucks mostly for casters and ranged physical carries who really need a health potion and increased survivability early game. I actually don't know if it's viable for any caster (any caster that would previously go doran's first) to start with a doran's ring anymore because you have no way of getting health back. Somewhat similarly for ranged physical carries, I think you might be better off starting boots or something else cause I don't see how you can expect to consistently survive harass early on without a potion for a safety net.
...I'm really surprised that they would implement a change that makes such a huge metagame shift. Early game harass is so much more potent now that you force people to either go without a potion or go for items that don't give you more survivability and staying power. In either case, getting early kills will be easier because you either force them to base early and take tower damage, or stay in the lane low on hp and susceptible to being ganked.
And similarly on the change to runes of clarity and quints of fortitude. I can somewhat understand the logic behind trying to close the gap between having and not having runes...but isn't that the point of the rune system? Advantages for using or not using certain runes? They pointed out there is no "overall" change if you already use mana regen runes/masteries, but I think this applies to only if you didn't use mana regen seals and glyphs (just used one or the other). The nerf was 33% on runes and 40% on the mana regen mastery...that's such a ridiculous sounding change. Why bother spending the points on the masteries if you get barely half the previous benefit?
Health quints is actually one that I just don't understand at all. I always had problems with taking them in the first place, but now I don't know if I'll ever bother outside of maybe a jungler that needs to extra hp to start on blue buff.
Frankly, health quints suck asshole late game. They're only good to add early game (maybe mid game) survivability. If you make them suck early game, you just make them suck. Period. I think now they don't even give 100 extra health if you use 3? That's pretty useless compared to a potential 4.5% speed boost which is about the same as having boots or extra armor/magic pen for better damage. Particularly considering the lack of survivability items early game, opting for flat ap quints or more damage centric runes might be better just to get early kills.
I'm pretty sure that people will faff about trying random ass starting items, but will eventually settle on not-doran's starting items for the most part. For example the trade off between starting with a rejuvenation pendant vs doran's shield. What do you need an extra 120 hp, 9 armor, and 2 health regen for when you can get 6 health potions instead? Or starting boots + 3 health potions gives you considerably more survivability than you would think because it enables you to more easily dodge skill shots and move out of range of enemy attacks/spells.
Simialrly, Why bother with a doran's ring when you can get a meki pendant and 2 potions? Is the extra hp and ap really that important early on? For the most part, it isn't. Most casters want to be able to stay in the lane as long as possible, you can't do that if you don't have a way to keep you hp and mana high.
Doran's blade...eh, might be okay? Kinda hard to say because I think ranged carries might stick with doran's blade (match up dependant) cause they can, for the most part, a decent amount of damage early on (by not needing to put themselves in a harassable position) and can regen health through lifesteal from relative safety. Though I think no melee characters will start doran's blade cause it's too easy to take damage when going for last hits and you can't easily regen via lifesteal.
If you look at the math of lifesteal early on...it's really bad, frankly. 3% of your damage, but how much damage do you really do? And when does the lifesteal apply? I'm not entirely sure, but I think it's only on auto-attacks and -maybe- physical damaging abilities, though I would think it's only auto-attacks. Also if the target being hit only has say 20 hp remaining and your attack hits for 50 damage, does the lifesteal take a percentage of 20 or 50?
Either way, most characters do under 50 damage a hit at early levels. In an ideal case where lifesteal is based of attack damage, not damage needed to kill a mob: 3% of 50 damage is a whopping 1.5 health gained. And especially considering you definitely don't want to be auto-attacking a lot (ie pushing lanes) how much hp can you really expect to regen via lifesteal?
Overall effect? Bye bye doran's items, with few exceptions.
Oh...and why did they only nerf the slow effect on Rammus' powerball? That really isn't what makes Rammus stupidly good ganker. And the Renekton changes seem a bit too good. They made him both tankier and do more damage. Slice and dice with >50 fury reduces armor by a percentage for 4 seconds. Not quite a free last whisper, but pretty damn close. If this stacks additively with last whisper, wtf 65% armor reduction. And his aoe cleave does more damage and heals more off champions (only 2.5% more, but there really isn't any need to give him more survivability AND damage at the same time). And I think Teemo just went up a decent chunk in the tiers with his move speed buff, seems pretty broken.
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Post by dyuman on Feb 1, 2011 23:23:24 GMT -5
fyi bought renekton for giggles if we ever want to use him.
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Post by feedback on Feb 2, 2011 2:41:49 GMT -5
With this huge doran's nerf it looks like reju beads + 6 health pots is the way to go if it builds into anything for your champ. Or if that doesn't work for you boots + 3 health pots and meki + 2 health pots is sounding a lot better to me.
Doran's nerf is also an indirect buff to champs with innate health regen, heals, and or damage absorption early game.
The Soraka buff is interesting. Her armor buff now adds 80 armor for 4 seconds at rank 5 and at least 300 health. That's a pretty good buff that will make her more useful in a team fight helping her save someone from physical dps.
Renekton buffs were pretty cool. He's fun to play but I'm not sure how viable he is in a real game.
Karma looks interesting to play. Too early to tell how viable she will be but she looks like fun.
Rune changes are kinda shitty since a lot of us already bought HP quints and mana regen runes. I've been slowly removing health quints from my builds and now I'm considering dropping them completely once I can afford some ap quints. We'll see how it goes. I might need to keep them since I'll probably be buying non-doran starting items from now on.
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